So what would you think if your primary school says it requires volunteers to teach swimming?

[daftdame]

Just that really. Our primary school says that swimming lessons may have to be cancelled if they don't get enough volunteers to help. I know they have to teach this, as it is part of the national curriculum, although I know the guidelines do not stipulate much in terms of how many lessons they are supposed to teach. I do not like the emotional blackmail aspect though...what do you think?

Parents are roped into do all sorts of things at my dc school. Reading, crafts, cookery, as well as after school clubs and lunch time clubs, taking the children to inbetween school footbal/basketball/cricket/netball/rugby matches as well as trips to museums, etc.

Par for the course at a RC Primary. I guess it is the true meaning of the word "voluntary aided", in addition to all the fund raising.

bored of this attitude daft now. Either help or don't help. Accept that to provide extras, the school will need extra help.

Most schools will have very strict guidelines from the LEA about ratios of adult/pupil during 'risky activities'. Swimming will almost definitely be included in this. Regardless of whether or not the pool is onsite or 5 miles away, there will probably be a 'policy' on ratios.

If the school can't get volunteers, they won't be able to run the activity. Schools are being run on an absolute shoe-string at present, and are increasingly relying on goodwill from teachers, TAs, governors, PTA and parents as it is. Such is life - we live in a time of austerity.

If you don't like it, pay for your DCs to go to private or council run lessons. At our school, children only attend swimming lessons during one year (5). We don't have the luxury of a local pool, and getting everyone to the nearest on is a logistical nightmare as it is. Our solution - we have paid for lessons since DS was 3. It is not that expensive.

"Irrespective of the ratio there must always be a supervisor present on the poolside alongside the swimming teacher"

"Pupil/teacher ratios must not exceed 20:1 and for the vast majority of cases in primary school swimming should be less than this."

Non-swimmers and beginners 12:1
Young children, normally primary school age, being introduced to swimming who are unable to swim 10 metres unaided on back and front.
Children under the age of seven 12:1
Irrespective of their swimming ability, group size should be restricted.
Improving swimmers 20:1
Swimmers of a similar ability to each other who can swim at least 10 metres competently and unaided on their back and on their front. It is recommended that the lesson be confined to an area in which the children are not out of their depth.
Mixed ability groups 20:1
Pupils with a range of ability (from improving to competent) where the least able and least confident are working well within their depth. Swimmers? techniques, stamina and deepwater experience should be considered.
Competent swimmers 20:1
Those swimmers who can swim at least 25 metres competently and unaided on front and back, and can tread water for 2 minutes.

mrz is that an LEA policy or guidance from a swimming association?

both

Oh dear I do seem to have been misunderstood. I appreciate teachers, I just feel an awful lot of compassion for parents. Why does everything have to be so polarized? Why should parents want to do a job unpaid that teachers clearly do not want to do paid? Yes do not volunteer, lessons are cancelled, everyone upset, including our children. So volunteer, be unsure about what you are doing but pleasing everyone. So offer to pay for teacher / TA training albeit hypothetically - no-one wants it.

Communication is obviously the key but with emotions so high where are we going to get? Most parents I know do pay for private lessons but not all can.

DS' school asks for volunteers for all sorts of things. Apart from the 'standard' helpers for reading, we need helpers for sewing, volunteers to help on school trips and any other off-site activities.

Without this help, these activities couldn't run. Whilst the children would still receive their NC entitlement, it would be that less 'rich' for it.

They also ask for a 'voluntary' contribution towards the cost of the coach for swimming. Whilst it is part of the NC, most parents are happy to pay it knowing that the school's budget is so tight. Parents are not 'chased' for the money, but if enough parents chose not to pay due to a sense of entitlement, the school would find it hard to balance the books as it were. The money would come from somewhere - but it would probably come from the budget for buying new books or investing in new ICT software.

It's like donating to the summer/Christmas fair - most parents do it because they want to help out where they can (and don't resent it).

mrz - you have the patience of a saint.

As a teacher, I have taught swimming in the past. As in other subjects, I read up before hand and planned my lessons accordingly. However, I soon found that teaching swimming effectively requires more than reading books on the subject. I was very happy to move to my current school where a qualified teacher takes the lesson.we do ask for parent helpers , only 1 per session, but this is as well as school staff not instead of. I am a parent as well as a teacher, teachers see both sides of this. As I work full time.e, I cannot help my but do not mind them asking.

Shall I go since I am trying everyone's patience? I am an unworthy non teacherish person after all. I thought I was trying to be understanding but obviously not enough. I shall practice my humility and maybe one day I will come close to the patience of mrz.

No, please don't go daftdame!

If everyone whose views were not agreed with left MN, it would be entirely empty!

Maybe that would be a good thing, but what would it give the daily mail to write about? They would actually have to send someone out of the office to do some proper journalism.

Hey journoes are people too, do you not want a free press? Not that I rate the Fail. Perhaps they could get some volunteers....

I'm sorry - I didn't mean to suggest you go, but I do get the feeling that you aren't really listening to the answers you are getting.

I think your school is very, very unusual to be teaching swimming to children who are so young that they need to have adults actually in the water with them.

Because your school is doing something so unusual, it is hard to draw any conclusions about the willingness (or otherwise) of teachers nationally to get involved in swimming tuition.

Most schools only expect teachers and TAs to escort the children to the pool, supervise changing and make sure everyone behaves. The teachers and TAs are very happy to do what is asked of them, with maybe an extra volunteer to help herd the children along.

For most schools this is a complete non-issue. They don't need to ask teachers to teach swimming, they use a qualified instructor, and they don't need lots of volunteers ready to jump in the pool with the children, because the children swim without adults.

Daft dame, I'm not a teacher/TA and I am struggling to understand your points. I think tiggytape has nailed it - your school is offering over and above the national curriculum requirements and needs volunteers if it is to continue to do so.

It might be nice if the volunteers had some training but as I don't think you have actually volunteered or know anyone who has, perhaps that training is available, by the swimming teacher if nothing else.