DD(Y3) not making progress. Is it her fault?

[LynetteScavo]

So, we recently had parents evening, during which I mentioned I didn't think DD was making much progress in numeracy. Her teacher agreed and told me it was because DD talked to much in class when set work.

(I'm happy with the progress she has made in literacy - she has had daily intervention.)

Obviously we have talked to DD about getting on with her work, staying focused and not chatting. Is this an reasonable reason for DD not making progress, or should the class teacher accept some responsibly for class management? I can't help thinking a chatty 7.5yo should still be learning.

?

It maybe that she makes progress during the teaching time, but doesnt show evidence of this progress as she isnt completing independent work due to chatting a bit too much.

I think schools are a partnership- you, your dd and the class teacher are involved and responsible for her learning- I'm sure the teacher is putting things in place to allow your dd to focus more and therfore progress, but one of her strategies is talking to you so you can also talk to your dd.

I don't really feel like I can comment on whether it is your DD's fault or not tbh. But when I was in Y3 I used to go to the toilet during the Maths lessons, & stop off in the library on the way back to while away as much of the class time as I could. Unsurprisingly I have never been much good at Maths! So I suppose I do think it is possible for a 7.5 yo to be making the wrong choices...

Maybe she should chat less and learn more, but can't you teach her a little too?

Yes, I totally agree there should be a home school partnership....which I don't have this year/with this teacher.

Yes, I can teach her a little at home....and have had to because it's not happening in school. On top of tables and homework and full time work, and the other DC, I was kind of hoping the basics would be covered in school though...like they have always been with my other DC. I am now looking for a tutor to teach her basic strategies Y3 DC should have under their belt.

I'm not looking to blame anyone, just trying to figure out if it's the teachers fault and things will improve next year with a different teacher, or if it's down to DD, and this is something I'll always need to keep a close eye on.

At the end of the year when DD hasn't made sufficient progress, will the teacher be able to tell the HT it's because DD was too chatty, or will the HT be looking at the teachers class management?

It is unlikely that class are expected to work in silence as they are often encouraged to work together when completing class work to a degree. The teacher is not saying that the whole class are not making progress which would be the case if the class management was poor. The teacher will be reminding your dd not to chat and to stay focused. She is now sharing this info with you so you can support her by reiterating to your dd the importance of not chatting. It seems to me that rather than lame the teachers class management you should take the info on board and support the teacher. Reading between the lines you dislike the teacher and so would like to make this a teacher issue rather than consider your dd needs to pay more attention to the teacher and her work. Parents evening is supposed to be about sharing info about dd including possibly negative things with parents. If you want teacher to be honest with you you need to take the info on board.

Chatty kids can be hard to manage. Whilst talking about X,Y,Z, their minds cannot possibly be focused on the task. My usual consequences to incessant talking include seating the child alone or keeping then in at breaks to complete work that was not done in lesson time. Both of which have prompted complaints for the children's parents!

Having said this, i would never, in a progress meeting, say, 'Jimmy has only moved on one sub level because he talks too much.' Ideally I would want to go in and say that I have put measures in place to combat Jimmy's disruptive behaviour (which chatting is) and they're having such and such an effect.

I also get the impression you don't like the teacher, but please do support her in managing your child's behaviour.

Is it that obvious that I don't like the teacher?

She is the 17th class teacher my DC have had, and she is the one I like the least. (Even the evil witch teacher was excellent at making sure every child was learning constantly, and all DC made excellent progress).

Two other parents of DC in the class have been so disappointed with lack of progress their child has made this year, they have taken their DC out of the school...I'm holding on for now, as I know things could be very different next year.

Obviously DH and I know we have to look to DD like I'm standing shoulder to shoulder with the teacher, and remind DD she is to keep focused on her work and not talk to the other (also chatty, unfortunately) DC on her table. I think sitting DD alone would be a good idea, but suspect she would just sit there doing nothing, unless she had regular encouragement from an adult, but I'm guessing that's not possible in a class of 30 with one teacher.

You say you are pleased with your DD's progress in Literacy as she has daily intervention. Is this a group where she is working 1-1 or a small group where the teacher can keep a close control of her chatting?
Could it also be that your DD is with a different group of children for maths and chats more to them? Because groups could be moved so she is sitting next to someone she chats less to.
Do you think that your DD might need intervention in numeracy too? Might this help her concentration?

She daily works 1-1 with a TA or a teacher from IDS to help her with literacy, so is constantly kept focused during those sessions.

She did well in numeracy in the KS2 sats...it's not lack of ability, but I am shocked that she doesn't know how to use certain strategies when working out.

Teachers haven't found her chatting to be a problem in the past,but I know she loves to talk at home, so don't doubt she is having a good old chin wag!

I think sitting DD alone would be a good idea, but suspect she would just sit there doing nothing, unless she had regular encouragement from an adult, but I'm guessing that's not possible in a class of 30 with one teacher.

So, she talks when she's with other children and you suspect she sits there doing nothing when she is alone-and you blame the teacher for her lack of progress!?

If a teacher is teaching a lesson and all children are focused and learning except one child who is daydreaming, fiddling and staring out of the window, whose fault is it when that child isn't making progress-the child or the teacher? At some point, the child has to take responsibility for their own learning, surely?

You think a 7.5yo should take responsibility for her own learning/failure? Her teacher probably thinks the same. I beg to differ, and will not allow my DD to fail educationally, so will be picking up the slack at home. I don't believe she is old/mature enough to see the long term implications not remaining focused. (Or eating sweets for every meal, etc.)

Actually, letseatgrandma, I think that's an appalling attitude. If DD were in her swimming lesson and just decided to float around, I wouldn't expect the teacher to let her get away with it, and then after a year of swimming lessons say, "Oh, well, she wasn't focused, she needed to concentrate more, not wonder she's made no progress." No, the teacher needs to engage the child, and make damn sure she's learning and progressing.

Luckily the vast majority of teachers, IME (I think I'm on the 22 class teacher my DC have had - [ancient mother smiley]) do manage to engage children, ensure they are constantly focused and learning, and progress through the year.

This thread has been very useful. It's helped clarify my thoughts.

No, the teacher needs to engage the child, and make damn sure she's learning and progressing.
I was seeing your POV until that point. I have a boy in my class, lovely boy, could talk for England. Appalling writing because it all comes out in a garbled mess with no thought going in to the quality. For two terms I have had this Boy in a small focus group, working in different ways, helping him improve. However, when he works independently, he reverts back to drivel.

Luckily, is mum understands his nature and recognises the input that's gone in, but if she had had the 'you need to make damn sure he's progressing' then I would have a lot to say!

Yes, but that boy has been in a small focus group for two terms, StuffezLaBouche. You are doing what you can to make sure he progresses, even if he can't work independently (yet), and working independently is one of his targets.

If my DD was in a small focus group, I would be thrilled, and be very happy with the school. If she still didn't make any progress at all, I would then be concerned as to what was going on.

I'm also concerned that DD isn't taking in/retaining what is being taught to the whole class. I really think there is more going on here than her talking to other DC on the table.

If your DD did well in her KS2 SATS (Should be KS1?) it may be that she is not far enough behind in comparison to her peers to be in a small focus group. They are usually reserved for those that are significantly behind.