Question for teachers regarding left handed children writing with pens.

[Myliferocks]

My DS is 8, in yr 3 and left handed
He was recently given a handwriting pen by his school to use as his handwriting is now considered 'good' enough to write in pen. He came home really excited and couldn't wait to use it the next day.
When he came home the next day he said it was difficult to use and he kept smudging his writing with his left hand as he was writing.
I suggested he spoke to his teacher the next day to see if she had any suggestions to help him not smudge his work as I was sure she has taught left handed children before.
He came home after having spoken to her with the result being that she couldn't help him therefore she said he had to go back to writing in pencil.

Do any of you teachers out there have any tips for helping a left handed child write without smudging as his teacher didn't have any?

exotic fruits: As a right-handed parent I take offence. I think my DD is pretty happy that I intervened at school, and school didn't seem to think I was making an unnecessary fuss (in fact they expanded their policy for teaching left handers so teachers had guidance... & if they don't have guidance, which is what the policy is, how are right handed teachers to know...? Now that's what I call common sense).

Why do you agree its necessary for sport but not for writing? Adaptations to method are sometimes needed for both. And it's not 'new' for sport; my middle aged brother was national standard at 3 events, 2 he did left handed and one right handed, because teachers took the trouble to work out with him which hand he was best at for different events; he's not alone, sports history has plenty who were right handed batsmen/left handed bowlers (or vv).

If left handed kids were started off by looking at how they might find it easier to hold a pen, analogous to how they are shown how to use equipment differently in sport, they would develop writing techniques that meant they didn't smudge before they get to the pen stage when, like the OP, some kind of remedial action is needed (remedial means getting it right after the event, and doesn't mean that they are less able, before anyone else moans that I'm claiming it's a disability). Another analogy is playing a musical instrument: it's best if you're taught good technique from the start and kids don't necessarily pick up a pen or hold a... flute, or whatever... in the best way for them.

With regard to your earlier comment "younger ones are calling it a special need and wanting policies on it", I suspect I'm older than you are, and even if not please don't assume I'm some wimpy juvenile mum who screeches as soon as things don't go her way. I just don't see any point in not sorting things and our school took on board accommodating the needs of left handers (and yes, sitting on the left hand side of a desk is a 'need' - but I'll drop the word 'special' since you object; it just came into that part of their school policy and fortunately parents there didn't get strung up about what it was called, just happy to see it dealt with).

What I do know from my aged viewpoint, OP, is that the effort to get left handed DD's writing sorted was worth it. Approaching Finals now, she, my second youngest, is almost at the end of the long road of exams, but along the way fast and legible handwriting has been so very helpful.

PastSellBy: what a wonderful - and very sad - post. It should be appended to school policy!

Your DD's experiences beggar belief. And I'm wrong that sports teachers all have it sorted and stand corrected. I'm humbled because my - wider and predominantly left handed - family have clearly had it good over several generations.

It also makes quite clear that it can't be left to common sense.

I think that I am older than you-I date back to inkwells and dip in pens at junior school!
There wasn't a point where I said that you shouldn't use special pens, grips, techniques for writing, special scissors etc-they generally get them in schools these days.
I just object, as a left hander, to being singled out as a handicap and a special need when we generally operate pretty well in a right handed world. I am perfectly happy being left handed-I had no worries at all about which hand my children used. I just wish that parents wouldn't tell their DCs that untidiness etc is because they are left handed and give them the idea that it would be better to be right handed. I started school by writing from the right to the left with every letter back to front-you adapt to the norm.
We use a different hand-it is a minor detail.

I can also think of many right handed children who have terrible problems with writing and need help and strategies. As a left handed mother it was just as difficult for me to to teach my right handed DSs to do things. As a teacher I was always enormously pleased to get a left hander for sewing and not to have to reverse everything. If your left handed child gets a left handed teacher they have a great advantage, and lots of teachers are left handed. For many children it is the first time that anyone has grinned at them and said 'great, you are a left hander'-rather than treating them as awkward.

I think the key sentence there is 'we generally operate pretty well in a right handed world'.
Like i've said up thread, my 17 yr old DD has had no problems being left handed. My DS is 8 and so far apart from this issue with the handwriting pen has been fine. My older DB on the other hand, who is left handed, has always struggled with the fact that he is left handed.

Having said that watching my DD ironing makes me smile. She has the ironing board the same way I would to iron so I can rest the iron to the right of where I'm standing.
She doesn't think to turn it around so she isn't reaching across herself to put the iron on the stand !

myliferocks: well put. If I could only be that brief! Oh well...

exotic fruits: "I think that I am older than you-I date back to inkwells and dip in pens at junior school!" So do I. OK, so neither of us is young. Truce? Or do we have to trade memories of the Beatles, the Cuban missile crisis, etc...! SORRY, off topic.

You object to being labelled: OK, fine. But allow me not to have a problem with labels where it means someone gets appropriate treatment and understanding. OH is disabled in the real sense and we have found that labels can be helpful. Where they are not, we can ignore them and accept that people mean well if they apply them. Perhaps we have a different perspective. Perhaps though it's just a question of confidence and we're confident in who we are.

I don't remember any occasion where my left handed DC was made to feel awkward - as distinct from her own perception(!) - and she's clearly been blessed in that respect. I do remember her starting a string instrument and asking if she'd be disadvantaged, and the teacher saying no, lots of of leading players were left handed and she didn't need to be taught differently, and indeed she did fine. And I remember at sports classes the left handers being shown separately - sometimes before the right handers, which I thought was a nice touch. She's been fortunate, I do see that.

I also think that although you say dealing with left handers is just common sense, other points in your posts indicate that even you don't actually find 'crossing the divide' easy (e.g. struggling to show your right-handed DS something, being a bit relieved when you have a left hander to teach sewing). So admit it, it can be an issue - but I agree entirely, not one to use as an excuse for untidyness.

sorry, should have said 'general untidyness'

I knew that DD was right handed when she was 8 weeks old. So I showed her things with my left hand and she copied them with her right.
DS did not settle on which hand to use till well into year R

how "handed" one is is a sliding scale, along with height etc etc

I used to get annoyed when getting shown how to clay pigeon shoot at corporate hospitality (having already been taught well at the place my boyfriend went to at the time) when I would be asked if I was left or right handed. It is the wrong question: you should be asked whether you are right-eyed or left-eyed dominant.

Even though I am left-handed, I am right-eyed dominant, which means that I shoot off my right shoulder.

Sympathique : I see exactly where you are coming from. Left handers have "special needs" in as much as you need to be considerate to their different needs (as Pastmysellbydate so eloquently put - ensure that they have space, give them the right correct equipment etc) and not assume that they will "cope". In the same that a good school will also adapt to the special needs of children who are gifted in Maths or English. (I remember having an argument with a teacher at ds' primary school when she was holding back the top Maths group so they were being bored witless and her justifying it as "But I'm teaching to the curriculum" to which I retorted "But you are sopposed to teach to the child " To be fair the head teacher supported me )

Can't quite remember the Cuban missile crisis but can just about remember the Beatles or at least can remember commenting about Paul McCartney and Wings that " they're not as good as the old group"

prettybird " It is the wrong question: you should be asked whether you are right-eyed or left-eyed dominant"

I grovel - you're right. In fact, you might find that strength, fine motor skill, hand-eye coordination and all sorts vary between right and left, IYSWIM, so you might opt to use one or the other for different sports - hence my confusing brother who did various things with various hands/arms/legs/feet. He told his kids not to admit too quickly to being left handed if it was a teacher that didn't know them to avoid getting railroaded but to try both right and left and then decide.

actually, i find most musical instruments easier right-handed, because most of the difficult stuff is done with the left hand (guitar, the chords are made with the left hand, the right hand just strums, recorder, all top notes are left-hand only, violin, notes placed with the left hand etc etc)

and the sewing machine is left-handed - this is my favourite fact.
Elias Howe, who invented it, was left-handed, and so he placed the free arm on the left - all of the work is moved with the left hand, and there's the space to move your arm and everything, whereas the righthand side is full of clunky equipment that is in the way if you're right-handed

Damn mumsnet! We are a family of left handers. Clickety-click and I've just spent £45.00 on Everything Lefthanded!!!

I wouldn't mind, I've only popped on for a nosey!

When I was learning to play golf at uni, the coach gave me a cricket bat and threw me a few balls to see which hand I would lead with. Since there wasn't that much of a difference as my hand eye coordination at that time was pretty crap either side , he decided to teach me right-handed as I would then find it easier getting hold of clubs.

Apparently quite a few of the top golfers are left handers playing right handed. There is an argument that it means that their strong arm is leading which can be advantageous.

Dh has a set of both left handed and right handed clubs. He mostly plays with the right handed ones but does occasionally go out with the left handed ones - or keeps one club in the bag for awkward shots.

As a "hook hander" I believe that the theory is that my brain is not fully "swapped over" which means I get the benefit of both worlds and am a naturally superior being with greater links between right and left hemispheres

More seriously though, the point is that there are degrees of left and righthandedness and that people shouldn't make assumptions.

of course, most power tools are designed righthandedly (with safety switches made so you have to use your right thumb and left hand or something in order for the item to operate)
I have been known to wield a right-handed chainsaw in one hand because the safety mechanism was designed so that a leftie can operate it without holdign it also in the right hand.

but some power tools won't start at all because of how they're switched.
I haven't yet been able to switch on and operate one upside down (with the dangerous bit facing me) yet, but i do have to contort into some strange positions to get my left and right hand on the safety.

There are also lots of anomalies. DS1 is right handed and left footed, DS2 is left handed for writing but right handed for anything else and left footed, DS3 is completely right side for everything.
I would say that we were the same vintage Sympathique. I am just trying to point out that it isn't a handicap- in my house your DD would find it easy- I even have a cheque book for left handers ( not that you need one much those days) and can certainly come up with special scissors, pens, mouse etc. I can teach right handed children- it just needs thought whereas the left handed is natural so the SN would be the right handers who need different treatment.
Where I would agree there is a disadvantage is that while all left handers know what right handers need, because they are surrounded by it in RL, right handers don't understand the difficulties. I would bet that only left handers would know what I find difficult, as a teacher, in a classroom- they are not something a right hander would even think about. (Any guesses anyone?)
I don't think that being left handed is a handicap BUT it is certainly a handicap having an adult who doesn't understand your needs.

exoticfruits - is it smudging the pen/chalk on the white/blackboard?

Close but more modern! (I had perfected the writing without smudging)

those interactive white boards, then.
i remember not being able to write on an overhead projector sheet whilst it was in place because the stand and mirror thing was on the wrong side.

Yes! I need to stand just where it blocks the light and so have to take up a very difficult position and can't write well. If I had time I used to type it but very often you have to write.
The other one is so irritating I wonder if I should have led a campaign for a very simple variation from the norm.

I suppose when you're writing stuff there and then, you can't really do a "reveal!" after you've written it all down

Very true

Now wait, this is unfair, Bloody Inconsistent Mumsnet. I did a whole thread about What wasn't a Biro & Why Couldn't DC use a Biro and was told that my left-handers had to lump it and use Berols like everyone else which I was assured were 100% always fine for Lefties, anyway, although I thought the smudge risk must be high.

Why they can't all use Biros still mystifies me.

I've coped well all my life with being left handed, due I think to sensible teachers, even back in the early 60's. i even learned to play the violin, recorder, piano with a righthanded teacher. I've made a point over the years in every school I've worked in, to make sure there is awareness on the part of all the right handed teachers of how to assist their left handed pupils to use tools, write, cut etc comfortably.
I sit facing right handers when teaching them certain skills eg sewing, knitting etc.
The rest of my family are all right handed but I've noticed they can use the kettle, iron in my left handed position ( although that might be due to lazy boy syndrome, can't be bothered to change it)

Mystifies me lljkk.