Concerned about Y3 levels for bright DC. Is it impossible to go from 3c in Y3 to 5 by end of Y5?

[whistleahappytune]

Genuinely looking for advice and information here. My DD is late August born, extremely bright kid, who had a slow start in school (which was okay by me) and then a terrible teacher (a rarity - this is not a teacher bashing) in Y2. I didn't realise how terrible until the year was half over. My smart funny DD was wrongly assessed (it happens) put in the bottom set for everything, became bored, stopped working and became really disaffected with school. She left Y2 at 1b. Her Y3 teacher is a massive improvement, and really "gets' DD, who enjoys school again. She is now in the middle sets and on target to leave Y3 with a 2a/3c, which will mean she's on target to leave Y6 somewhere around a 4.

I know she can do so much more. I worry that she's not working at the level she can or should and will not be fulfilling her potential. Despite reassurances about "movement" among the groups, I'm concerned that as the upper groups are working at a more accelerated pace, that she can never catch up. I had hopes for a selective or private secondary school, which generally expect a level 5 by the end of Y5. I'm not obsessed with levels, but this is the currency that everyone deals with and the language everyone speaks.

Is there any way for her to catch up and be on track for leaving with a level 5? We do work at home - reinforcing basic numeracy and literacy. She reads a lot and is involved in music. I don't want to be a joyless tiger mother, but want to do right by her abilities and intellectual potential. What to do? I had considered a tutor for Y5 just to familiarise her with test format etc, but should I be considering a tutor for Y3? I've met with current teacher, who's reassuring that "she's making progress", but for me, not enough progress.

Sorry this has been long but didn't want to drip.

Can you not home-educate alongside school?

Remember that level 5 is actually the expected level for a 14 year old having said that there is no reason why a child can't achieve level 5 by Y6. She has made really good progress from Y2 so if that continues it isn't unrealistic.

What is your schools target for Y5? She's in Y3 now? Try her on the Bond papers - start with her age to get an idea of where she is now and work your was up. The Ten Minute ones are great. There are the 4 subjects.

Get the reading list from your target secondary schools. The books will be old for her now, but you may find one or two that she can read now - discuss the with her and encourage her to write a short book review. The libraries usually do a holiday reading club. Remember to read 'older' books first before they go to a younger reader. I was bawling at the end of the Boy in Striped Pyjamas! Michael Morpugo does nice short ones (a bit saccharine for my tastes and usually someone dies!)! The 'My Story' ones are good to tie in with history topics at school. Get the topic list from school and take her to the library to select relevant books to mug up n the subjects - novels, fact books, etc.

Encourage keeping a diary or a pen pal. Get er to write her own newspaper and stories.

Hobbies are great - bird watching, stamp collecting... Whatever grabs her attention aand you can do research on the topic.

Trips to the museum and set galleries. Watching 'classic' movies. Read her some 'old' books, like Huckleberry Fin, Jules Verne, Dickens... To help her appreciate language.

I would speak to the teacher too. Ask if she can have some additional work or projects to do (maybe at the weekends) and tell her that you feel she has slipped back a bit and is eager to learn.

Our Head is fanatical about music being very important for bright kids. What's your daughter playing? Is she in the school choir or orchestra? Sports?

Think about magazines for her too - Aquila is good, so is How It Works. Puffin club is sadly no longer running but it may be resurrected by Penguin soon.

Languages? Kumon? Mathslletics/Maths Challenge/Maths Wizz?

Most of all, fun! If she feels that she is being hot housed, she may be a bit unhappy.

Not impossible at all.
From what you have said it seems to me that she is making enough progress.

To go from 1b at the end of year 2 (below national average), to 3c at the end of Y3 (roughly national average), is amazing progress and shows the intelligence you see in her is coming out.

I teach Y4 and the national average is 3b. If she continues making more than expected progress in years 4 & 5 then she will be aiming for 4b, possibly 4a at the end of year 5.
Y6 can then be spent focusing on making the jump from 4 to 5.

If she continues with good teachers who have high expectations of her, and you work with her at home she should be fine!

As a teacher... How the hell do these work? I have no idea what levels sould be achieved when and what good progress rate is. I am such a slack ass.

Well, we work with APS (Average Point Scores). Children on average make 3 points progress per academic year.

2a - 18
- 19
3c - 20
- 21
3b - 22
- 23
3a - 24
- 25
4a - 26

etc.

So If a child is 2a (18 points) in y2 SATs, I would be aiming to get them to 3a (24 points) at the end of y4. Because 2 years would be 6 points progress.

However, that completely depends on the individual child. As the OP said, her daughter is making more than expected currently so as her teacher I would be extending her target.

I always consider the individual child when setting targets and they are always movable.

Thanks all for taking time to respond.

learn, I feel I do HE quite a bit already and am keen not to overload her schedule.

mrz I feel that expectations are a bit low for all students, but pleased you don't think Level 5 is unrealistic.

moomin, thanks for the thoughtful suggestions, much of which I do already. Like the idea of magazines, which I'll look into, and the diary keeping. DD studies violin, plays in an orchestra at her music school and sings in the school choir. Yes, I agree no hot housing. And I don't believe you're a slack ass!

Smile that's very encouraging to know, especially with your Y4 experience.

www.primaryprogresstoolkit.co.uk/blog/?page_id=72
one unofficial method used by many schools

Our children are "expected to" make at least 4 points progress a year so a 3c at the end of year 3 (19 points) would be "expected" to be a 4b ( 27) by the end of year 5 But I have had children make over 6 points progress in a year and several have made 12! Children are not linear beings, the progress they make will depend on more than just the target that is set.

DS is 4C He was at the end of year 3 and was still that at Christmas. Smart arse! Where he gets it from... (I've just realised that my lunch roll was mouldy and I've eaten it). Ho hum.

You're right, the target has to be more of a guide. Children will make different progress each year, some more than others. We've had children make 4 or 5 each year.
Never heard of 12 though! A child could go from 16 pts/2b to 28 pts/4b in one year?? or have i misunderstood?

Cumbria at DD's school they are expected to make 3 points progress. I know children aren't linear beings. But realistically DD goes to a state school in the inner city. There are 30 kids in the class. Even with a good teacher, pushing my DD to achieve more is frankly not a priority. I worry that the school will consider "job done" if DD achieves a 4 in Y6 which is the national average.

Keep an eye on what she'd studying at school and supplement like crazy. Keep a diary of work she does. Look at your target school websites and download entry papers - you can try to go through the, with her and see how she goes with these.

Do a little before she goes to school (maybe a Bond 10 minute) and a little when she gets home - even if its write a letter of a round of trivial pursuit. MENSA do puzzle books and games, which are good too.

I teach in a rural school with 30 in the class ( mixed age Year 5/6 too) One of my year 5's has gone from a 3c in reading and maths at the end of year 4 to a 4c in both now, a year 6 has already moved from a 3b in reading to a 5c, so yes, it is possible!

That's great to hear, cumbria! All credit to you.

Well, if I could get the whole class to do the same I would take the credit for it! But it doesn't work that way, some children simply "click" and off they go, many year 6's work VERY hard and become very competititve, year 5's follow along quite happily,but some still struggle ( I have a couple that despite all my and their best efforts have made very little progress

But it IS possible and with hard work and effort, your DD could well do the same!

Not impossible at all.
With my kids I found y3 to be a slow progress year and y5 to be a year where they made a big jump in progress.
Ds1 was 2a in his y2 SATs, 3c at the end of y3, 3a at the end of y4, 4a at the end of y5 and 5 and 6 in y6 SATs.
Dd was 3c at the end of y2, 3b at the end of y3, 3a/4c at the end of y4 and is currently 4a in both at this point in y5 (and targeted 5c for the end of y5).

Anything is possible for a variety of reasons DD didn't have a great year 2 and left with me believing there were serious literacy issues and just a little above average in Maths. A truly fab year 3 teacher and the progress was exponentially and luckily we have the same in year 4. Have no idea about NC levels no SATS at her school, but currently doing year 6 maths ciriculum and well ahead in literacy.