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Primary education

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Original poster

"Prediction" in reading

23 replies

bryony77 · 10/02/2013 20:55

DD is in Y1 and enjoys reading. I've had to ask the teacher to assess her a couple of times as she's been reading the books she brings home fluently and talking about the stories; every time I've asked she's been moved up a level. A couple of weeks ago I asked for the teacher to assess her and although she did move her up, the teacher said DD needed to be better at predicting the story "as there are no right and wrong answers in prediction".

Last week the teacher comment in her book said "can do basic prediction". The books she's reading at home (we get a book to read every night) she's still reading fluently with only a very little prompting on a few words and she understands what she's reading but I don't really understand the whole focus on "prediction" and why this should be holding her back from reading more challenging books.

Can anyone explain how prediction links to reading and how I can help DD? I'm a bit worried she's getting 'lost in the crowd' as she's bright but is more likely to get on with things quietly herself than shout about what she can do.

OP posts:
mrz · 10/02/2013 21:05

I wonder if the teacher is using "prediction" for "inferring" reading between the lines to answer questions

Original poster
bryony77 · 10/02/2013 21:10

Maybe, but they also have to talk about what happened, why they think characters did particular things, how those characters felt etc etc. I've asked DD what they actually do and she said they look at the cover and then go round the table (there are 6 in a group, I think) and everyone has to say what they think the book is about. They're not allowed to give different options and they can't say something someone else has already said - sounds like a nightmare to me if you're the 6th child and you keep hearing your ideas offered up by those before you.

OP posts:
learnandsay · 10/02/2013 21:32

I'd ask the teacher directly what she means.

survivingwinter · 10/02/2013 22:02

This is exactly what I was told about dd also in yr 1 by her teacher at parents eve. Although my dd, like yours reads fluently she is staying at a certain level until her understanding catches up with her reading and decoding ability. I imagine this could be a maturity thing?

learnandsay · 10/02/2013 22:12

Narrative analysis defeats professionals on a daily basis. That's why so many films and novels are rubbish, full of plot holes and are badly written in so many ways. So it's unfair to expect primary school children to have a perfect grasp of the techniques involved.

And, to be fair to the children involved, the answers that a teacher gets to her comprehension and narrative analysis questions will depend largely on how she asks the questions. If she asks the questions badly and gets bad answers then she can't blame her pupils. If she asks what happens next? The children can legitimately reply: We don't know. It hasn't happened yet.

If she asks: Do you think Gollum will ever get the ring back or do you think that Frodo will succeed in his task and throw it into the fires of Mordor?

then she stands a better chance of getting a reasonable answer.

learnandsay · 10/02/2013 22:36

The top four paragraphs of this webpage have a plot hole/plot flaw story involving Edgar Wallace which I've heard many versions of over the years. www.pierpont.com.au/article.php?In-one-bound-the-brokers-were-free-232

But essentially it involves predicting what happens next. The onlookers (whoever they are in the version of the story you hear) are on tenderhooks trying to work out how Edgar will get his hero out of his impossible fix. And Edgar does it. The problem is how he does it!!

mrz · 11/02/2013 17:28
Hmm
maizieD · 11/02/2013 18:48

Why the heck children are expected to murder a book by 'predicting' what happens next I will never understand. Why can't they just read and enjoy what the author has written?

Checking for understanding of what has already happened, or discussing characters, is a different matter.

mrz · 11/02/2013 18:58

I would imagine it's because those are the type of questions they will face in a KS1 SAT test/task.

mrz · 11/02/2013 19:00

In the level 1/2 task the first question is ... look at the cover ...what do you think this book is about?

maizieD · 11/02/2013 19:08

I would imagine it's because those are the type of questions they will face in a KS1 SAT test/task.

I realise that! But I just wonder why it was ever thought to be a desirable thing to do. It would have absolutely ruined a book for me. Bad enough to be pestered all the time when you're trying to enjoy the story but to have to 'predict' all the way through...aaarrrgh Wink

mrz · 11/02/2013 19:15

I assume it's because the tasks/tests were produced for the Searchlight method and haven't been updated

learnandsay · 11/02/2013 19:17

Is it possible that they're not giving the children enough credit? She wanted The Three Little Pigs read and brought it over saying pig. And pointed to Little Miss Tittlemouse and said meep-meep. I guess if you can work out what a book is about when you're one you can still do it when you're in Reception.

mrz · 11/02/2013 19:23

They are looking for much more than that learnandsay

learnandsay · 04/03/2013 21:03

We've just had Superphonics (Fiona Fusspot) home as a reading book. In the blurb it says lots of things but it says stop her reading from time to time and ask what happens next. But the book is semi gibberish, particularly the bronto babies portion of it, and I wouldn't have a clue what would happen next never mind asking a 4yo.

simpson · 04/03/2013 22:15

DD's school reading book this week was "The Great Tree Mouse Adventure" (rigby star) which she read totally fluently ( with expression) answered questions on how characters feel, what might happen next etc...

But the thing she finds tough is there was a part (at the beginning) where the tree the mice live in is chopped down and DD could not say why it was chopped down (this was not stated in the book) ie the land was needed to build houses/roads, the wood was needed etc.

So this is something she needs to work on (I have noticed it in other books too).

learnandsay · 04/03/2013 23:02

Sorry to sound silly, but if the story didn't explain why the tree had to be chopped down then how is your daughter supposed to know?

simpson · 04/03/2013 23:09

By "inferring" from the pictures or thinking about why....there is not a correct answer, as long as she doesn't come out with something to do with aliens etc Grin

IMO DD has reached books at her level as now she is having to work on comprehension where as before she has just "got" everything very quickly, but she was flummoxed by this!!

learnandsay · 04/03/2013 23:15

hmmm, I'm not wild generally on this "what comes next?" behaviour. But if my daughter was being asked to explain things about stories which are not actually in the story, unless the teacher was doing it in a very generous and pretty much any reply is a good reply kind of fashion I think I could get quite agitated. I know developing narrative imaginations is a good thing to do but I don't think asking infants ridiculous and impossible questions is the best way of going about it.

simpson · 04/03/2013 23:24

Unfortunately the higher they go up the reading scheme, the more questions they have to be able to answer.

Inferring is definately something DD needs to work on.

They (the teacher) generally does it in a general way ( they did with DS) and they never told him he was wrong (as he had a problem with confidence).

learnandsay · 04/03/2013 23:39

I don't know, simpson. Adults have problems with deduction on a daily basis. I can't see how children are supposed to master it. To some extent they have fewer problems with it than adults do because adults are aware of the fact that things are expected of them. But if people are going to ask children questions which do not have definite answers then they do need to take a lot of care about how willing they are to accept the answers that they receive. (I should probably get off this topic now.)

simpson · 04/03/2013 23:43

I do know what you mean, luckily DD is likely to waffle crap talk for ages about a book which can only help Grin

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