What would you think if this was happening in your y3 child's class?

[RunnersWorld]

And what, if anything, would you do?

One of the children is very disruptive, including bouts of physical and verbal violence, e.g.:

-Throwing chairs
-Swearing at the class and teacher
-Tearing up his own and others' work
-Pacing around the class when they are supposed to be working/listening
-Walking out of class meaning the teacher has to leave to bring him back
-There have also been two complaints from children/parents about him touching girls inappropriately (now has 121 at lunchtimes, so is constantly watched)

At least one from this list happens daily, once it was so extreme that the teacher had to remove the rest of the class from the room while two TA's tried to calm him. School was unable to contact anyone to collect him so he spent the rest of the day in the Head's office, as the TA basically refused to work with him. He's big for his age, strong and scary when he loses control.

My DS2 is in this class. I know all the detail because of my job, most parents of course will only have patchy stories relayed by their DC, but they all know there is a problem. To avoid drip feeding, I will also say I know that he is a very damaged child as a result of sexual abuse and currently living with a foster family. Other parents know nothing of this of course.

I am interested in an opinion from the POV of the parents who know nothing of his background, please.

[lougle]

VonHerBurton, I think that's irrelevant, tbh. What this thread has done is put that seed of doubt in the minds of many parents who have children with SN. The doubt that in actual fact, their child's distress is the subject of juicy gossip.

Even if the OP is a fosterer, she is not allowed to share details of his childhood circumstances.

[thesecretmusicteacher]

Would like to add that the mum, once befriended, strongly preferred it to be known that child x had been hurt as a toddler. Once this was in the public domain she knew parents would think in a more measured way. She felt secrecy just fanned the flames and I agree.

Don't know much this applies to foster mums. No experience.

[Paddlinglikehell]

Dd had similar at her school and would get very distressed by it, from reception up to Yr 1 there were daily incidents with two pupils, one of whom had 1-1. After two separate cases of violence to her, one of which was taken very seriously in school, we took the decision to move her.

I have no idea what problems the children may have had, but I do know that it is still going on. The classroom is frequently evacuated and one of them often restrained by a teacher who comes from another class. Two others have left since us.

I am desperately sorry for these kids and the teachers dealing with it, they obviously need more support, but DD's education and emotional wellbeing was our first concern.

Our Dd is a different child, she no longer 'worries', she is confident, enthusiastic and enjoys going to school now. I am all for inclusion, but not at he expense of the majority, I am sure the other parents in this instance are (rightly or wrongly) as pissed off as we were.

[NynaevesSister]

Mainstream school may simply not be the best place for the child. He clearly has needs that can't be met. My OH has worked at a specialist primary for children with behavioural problems where they can offer a lot of help and support. Usually though children go there after all other options exhausted and sadly that can mean more than one exclusion when really they should have gone there first.

[FreckledLeopard]

I would be worried and concerned that my DD would be missing out on learning if resources were having to be diverted to manage the other child at the expense of those children without such problems.

I wouldn't want DD to be around children who threatened (or used) violence and I wouldn't want her schooling disrupted. Thus, if the child's behaviour had a detrimental impact on her learning I would complain to the school.

My ex-husband's son is autistic and at primary school. He now has full time 1-2-1 but he caused significant disruption over the years and I don't think that mainstream was appropriate for him. If child is on ASD spectrum then they aren't going to 'learn' appropriate behaviour by being in a mainstream sitting since autistic children do not absorb social norms and behaviour by copying others.

Inclusion IMO is not always appropriate in all circumstances and in this example, it sounds like the school is going no-one any favours at all.

[Fairenuff]

Whilst it is clear that the staff need more training, support, advice etc., sometimes they are more likely to get it if parents do complain about the child.

Sometimes it is helpful if the problems are highlighted. The difficulties are then taken more seriously and instead of just coping with the situations as and when they arise, a proper action plan is put into place with frequent re-assessments. Raising concerns is sometimes helpful.

[Panzee]

As a teacher it is sad but true that we tend to get ignored unless parents start complaining. I would encourage this. Maybe go from the angle f your child's safety and also academic progression. In our area it's often the only way this poor child will get the help he needs.

[ouryve]

Apart from the touching of girls (he won't go near girls) that's my Y4 DS you could be describing. He has ASD and ADHD.

[GingerbreadGretel]

Parents should always feel able to complain. They can slant it from "I am concerned whether there is enough support" it does not need to be a witch hunt about a small child.

[FreckledLeopard]

Well, I lived with my ASD step-child for three years before the marriage fell apart and spent endless hours researching and trying to get help - statementing, ABA, social stories etc. of course not all ASD children are the same but it's pretty well accepted that children on the spectrum do not tend to learn in the same way as NT children do, hence the need (often) for intensive support. My step-son certainly did not learn from other children in any way and was not affected by any social norms or rules. He did not care about following rules or conventions in the same way as NT children did and was disruptive day in, day out, although now with a full time 1-2-1 he is less so.

But, it took 4 years to get that support in place - hence 4 years where the resources were diverted to manage him. Now he has a statement and support is in place. Prior to that it was a nightmare for all concerned.

[FreckledLeopard]

No - I'm talking about my experience with my step-son, knowing other ASD parents and children and the reading and research I did.
But I did think that it was fairly widely accepted that inability or difficulty in picking up social norms and cues was a significant part of the spectrum. And that learning by osmosis in terms of social situations is not the norm if on the spectrum - hence need for support, social stories, ABA etc

[MareeyaDolores]

This child is being comprehensively failed. As is the rest of the class.

The best way to get him appropriate support, is to make it easier for school to meet his needs and harder for school to continue with the approaches which seem not to be working. Complaints from other parents can be useful in this. The difficulty with having the local authority as your 'corporate parent' is that if the same council refuses to meet a child's educational needs, the SW is unable to fight this.

As posters above say, meltdowns don't usually come from no-where, and a good ABC analysis goes a long way.

[MareeyaDolores]

And OP, I've reported your post as it's way too detailed for any open forum. The general points raised are very valid, but even with some disguising I think things are far too guessable.

You might want to report it yourself, with an alternative form of wording if you can think of something suitably vague and brief.

[lljkk]

You will find that children with additional needs attract additional resources.

I thought the consensus within SEN community is that it's always under-funded?

Our school has almost banned new IEPs, I think for funding reasons.

I can understand why some parents are spitting mad, from OP's description. It isn't an easy environment to learn in, is it?