Am I doing my DCs an injustice by not moving to a more middle class area - middle class primaries?

[choceyes]

We live in an inner city deprived area. DS is 4yrs old (have 2yr old as well) and I have applied for a place for him at the local primary school.

Most of my friends and NCT friends are in more suburban middle class areas and a few have moved from where we are to more surburban areas for "better schooling".

Now, our local primary is rated outstanding by Ofsted and have been since 2005. There is nothing but praise in the ofsted report for this school, praise for the teacher, the systems in place and in particular the headteacher is well praised (and still the same HT now). Our second choice school, 10min walk away is also rated Outstanding, have better SAT results than our first choice, but is CofE and we are aethists, but we could still be OK with the second choice school too.
The middle class primaries in the more surburban areas DO get better SAT results, but my DH who is a teacher (secondary not primary though) says this is purely because of all the middle class kids who enter primary at a more advanced level and will therefore perform better anyway generally.
The intake in our local school is more mixed socially, a lot of kids from deprived families etc. The ofsted reports acknowledges this and says, despite the fact that these kids are entering at a less advanced level than averge, they make remarkable progress at this school.

I still do have a few middle class (i hate this term but just so you know what I mean), educated friends still living in this area and are happy with this local school. But since I've been talking to my NCT mates who are firmly in the surburbs, and were talking about their LOs possible primaries having lacrosse, music lessons at lunch time and so on, I've been feeling a bit down about the choices I have made for my DCs.

I do know that being surrounded by like minded peers who have similar aspirations does matter to kids longterm when making life choices, making connections etc and me and DH both went to selective grammer schools for secondary schools, but I see it as being more important at secondary level not at primary, which is more about parental input. Am I right or am I deluded? DH thinks it's it's the Ofsted rating that matters and also other parents opinions (which are very positive) and those that have moved to get their DCs into the more middle class primaries are being slightly snobbish, and just an excuse to mix with that kind of society, even though the teaching at those schools might not actally be any better.

I won't rest till my DCs are in a very good school for their secondary education, moving abroad if necessary. DH is very keen to move abroad anyway and doesn't think us moving to the surburbs is necessary anyway. He really wants to educate the DCs in a foreign country with great schools and learning another language. We haven't made definite plans yet though.

So anybody else faced this dilemma or have any words of advice for me? Am I doing the right thing?

go for it if its a school that values each of its pupils and has a caring atmosphere.

my nct type friends would not send their kids to my school imo, but my kids get better grades than theirs, so it hasnt made a difference to their education.

the only difference i see is around playdates and afterschool stuff , less of both tbh, cultural thing.

it all depends on the happiness of your son... do you see him making friends with the other children... if there are playdates will you be happy to hang out with the other parents? I think it depends how mixed the school is... for example, if there is a nice mix of many nationalities it can be great, if it is 95% of one particular ethnic group plus your DS, maybe less fun. I'd say go for it and see how it goes - if he makes friends there no problem. In such a school it sounds like you don't really have to worry about the academic side, my worry would always only be if DCs fit in and make friends.

DH thinks it's it's the Ofsted rating that matters and also other parents opinions (which are very positive) and those that have moved to get their DCs into the more middle class primaries are being slightly snobbish, and just an excuse to mix with that kind of society, even though the teaching at those schools might not actally be any better.

sounds quite likely doesn't it?

With a dedicated band of parents who take their time to "figure out" how to help in a way that complements the head's vision, the school can be the best in the area for both sport and music - even lacrosse if you want it :).

What will your child's experience be in the local school? And what are the things that matter to you?
IME some schools are good for pastoral care, some for bringing on the least able in the core subjects, some for creating an "inclusive" environment. Others are a little of everything and not much of anything. What is right for your children may not be right for others.

sanam2010 there is a largish proportion of black children in the school, but it is generally very mixed in ethnicities. My friends who have children in the school are white, and they all have said their DCs like the school and they are pleased with the school, so if their DCs can integrate, my own mixed race (asian/white) DCs should be fine I guess. It's a very mixed area generally where we lived, it is unusual to find non mixed race children! I have been to many toddler groups in the area and everybody has been very nice, and I know a lot of people in the area now, so I'm sure I will mix with the parents well.

mercibucket - I'm not quite sure about the afterschool activities, although I do suspect they have less than the surburban areas, you are right. But our area does have a lot of stuff going on for primary aged children, like a cultural venue near to the school that does drama and music workshops, theatre activities and a major classical music venue, just up the road, that does lessons from 5+.
DS is a very social boy and even at nursery gets asked on playdates a lot, so I'm not too worried about the playdate side of things.

thesecretmusicteacher I'm glad you think so!

Catriona100 - I'm not really sure what the this school is best at to be honest . When I walk to other parents, they say they are happy with the school and their DCs are happy and progressing well.

look at the league tables (aka "performance tables"). If the school has a high % of pupils get level 4s but are below national average for level 5s then you will know that its likely that the school will focus hard on the least able.

If you can't think that far ahead (to age 10/11) and all you really are thinking about is up to age 6/7, then look at the work on the classroom walls for variety and plenty!

Some parents see KS1 as their chidlren are at school and what matters most is that they learn the 3Rs plus they are kept safe etc. For others KS1 is all about settling into school, making friends and things like outside learning facilities.

oh and the newsletters may be on the website... have a read through a wide sample because they will give you a feel of what the school is about. My children's last school had a newsletter that said (paraphrasing) about pick up and drop off times:-
come quietly into playground
don't let your pre-school children touch any playground toys etc (best keep tight hold of them)
collect your child and then make your way quickly out of school grounds.
please do not chat to other parents, or generally cluster.

Yes, the head was that unfriendly although parents only found this out after their children were enrolled because until then she was on a charm offensive and a completely different person.

"please do not chat to other parents, or generally cluster"

yikes!

My dcs go to a very good (but not outstanding) primary with very high FSM etc. It's in an area of extremes economically - very affluent or very poor, with little in between. Most of the affluent go private.
I think it's an excellent school and am really happy with the education they're experiencing. Sometimes it would be useful to have more PTA types and it's true that there are fewer playdates and parties that those of friends' kids at more Bodeny schools. I used to be envious of those at schools that were so homogenous that the whole class and their families would go on camping trips (maybe three or four would be interested at my kids' school). There seemed to be a social frenzy akin to first week at university. But five years on, I'm so glad ours isn't like that. All these very close friendships made with school friend's parents now seem to be backfiring and I think it can get claustrophobic. I get on well with my children's friends' parents without wanting to hang out with them other than three or four genuinely close friends. That seems a healthy balance and it means that my children have a great time with their friends while at school but have kept up with friends from outside. In more middle class schools it seems you can get sucked in to the point of suffocation. I've friends who have, I'm not joking, moved to the country to escape their Muswell Hill primary...

Just saying, but parents from the 'middle class' primary down the road were flocking in droves to our high FSM, high proportion of Travellers, lower headline results school ... because school A relied on the intake and on parents picking up the slack, and didn't actually do anything, whereas school B worked their socks off to ensure that every child made the maximum progress....

Our local school (eldest dc will start in September) sounds very much like Farewells. Most people I know are negative about it - having had zero experience of it and base their judgment on old stories about attainment (which are clearly out of date as recent sats results are excellent) and by the flock of people that head towards the school from a local council estate. We have been round several times and love it. Have spoken to parents who say good thing of it. It is inner city and very mixed with far few 'mc' families than other nearby schools (where house prices are ludicrous around the school and catchment is about 200 metres). However, I honestly don't care about that and in any case I know that many of those families from the 'estate' are lovely people with high aspirations for their children. I like to think I can mix with all sorts and anyway I am certainly not sending my children to enhance my social circle. I hope my kids will be able to mix with all sorts, or they will have missed out on a vital part of what school is about IMO and will struggle when they have to get on outside the cosiness of school. We will have the same issue you mention about extra curricular stuff, but plan to supplement a bit out of school (especially on music provided the DCs are keen). I am excited about them starting school and I am confident our kids will do well there, in comparison with friends' children who have been moved out to the burbs or sent to expensive pre preps. Of course, I could be wrong. But I also think that we will keep a close eye on how the DCs get on and if there's a problem, we will reassess and move them if we feel we need to. I think it is incredibly sad that so many people make massive judgments about schools based on its 'look' and don't bother to do their own research and seek out the positives. Don't give in to peer pressure - make a realistic judgment of the school itself, for better or worse.

Thank you so much for you rreplies. It has helped me enormously. I do think our local school is a good one, and we are lucky that we have good schools around us, despite living in a "deprived" area. I had a tour of the school and was impressed with it. My DH read the Osfted report and he was impressed with that too.
Like you say SavoirFaire I want my DCs to mix with all types of children. I know quite a few of the local famililies that are going to send their DCs to this school and they are lovely people, not affluent (neither are we really!), just normal people.
It just makes me feel a bit uncomfortable when friends say they are moving to the burbs for "better schools" when there are two Oustanding rated primary schools on their door step, I feel like they are thinking that I don't want the same for my DCs. What they really mean by better schools is that they want their DCs mixing with other white middle class kids, not the blackworking class kids (who are lovely) in our local school. I think it's pure snobbery and a bit of racism.

Yes, you are lucky.

Re mixing with all types of children, it all depends on your particular child. A very mixed intake has benefitted both my kids so far. The older one is described by the teachers as a "leader" and is the one you go to if you want a fight stopped. We (obviously) never ever talk about this but I feel that he gets to hone those leadership skills because he socialises with kids from all walks of life at our school. For this reason, I'm veering away from the super-selective single-sex grammar just over the border and towards the local comp for secondary. I have a feeling that if you can lead in a comp, you can lead in life and you aren't scared to you work with people outside your comfort zone.

The younger child is very very different. For him, it's been beneficial to be with kids from some hard-pressed backgrounds because he has language problems. In a Bodeny school he'd stand out in a bad way, and to keep their statistics looking good I fear they would probably concentrate too much on his strengths (spellings, chess, mental maths) whereas in our school they focus on his weaker points.