Phonics versus Biff, Chip and Kipper

[Lukethe3]

I find it slightly irritating that at DS school he is taught phonics but then sent home to read the old ORT stuff which has tricky words at even the easiest level. Is this purely because the school has no money to buy new books or is there actually an advantage to be taught like this?
I have bought some Songbirds books for DS and these seem to make far more sense to me as they include the sounds that DS is learning.

[mrz]

Teachers who send home look and say reading scheme books undoubtedly do so because the school has not purchased any new phonic books so they have to work with the tools they have. I don't imagine they are too happy either,

[learnandsay]

We can't know why someone does something unless we ask them. I don't think there are any mindreaders on mumsnet.

[mrz]

You don't need to be a mindreader learnandsay ... just informed

[learnandsay]

Well, I've heard of teachers throwing away their look and say books or hiding them so that colleagues less enamoured with phonics than themselves could not get access to them. So it would seem that there are at least some teachers who would give out look and say books even if decodable ones were available.

[simpson]

I don't think a class teacher is going to admit their school books are crap not very good if you ask them.

DS had non decodable ORT books in reception which did not help him at all and he struggled for most of the year.

[learnandsay]

Did the school not have any decodable ones at all?

[yellowsubmarine53]

No, lands, that's not 'my theory'. As I've said several times, it's usually not that helpful for children to have books that they can't read sent home for them to read. I've already said that my dd hated look and say books when she was in the early stages of learning to read.

I also said that teachers will have been assessing children's attainment from the first morning they have the class, not that this will be a thorough assessment.

I also said that there's not usually a particular strategy for sending home look and say books - it's usually that the school doesn't have enough resources or isn't for whatever reason teaching reading in line with current good practice guidelines ie sending home decodable books.

[yellowsubmarine53]

I also haven't said that the teacher is always right. I would say, however, that reception teachers would tend to know more about teaching phonics and assessing what a child can read independently than most parents.

[learnandsay]

According to your theory the teacher as you put it, is assessing children's attainment from the first morning, and so she works out, according to you, what the child can read independently and then sends the appropriate books home.

[yellowsubmarine53]

Of course a teacher is assessing from the first morning. She or he will use this information and continue to gather information to work out pretty quickly what each child can read independently and give them a particular level to see how they go with it.

It's called ongoing or continuous assessment.

That's pretty much what you've described happened with your dd's teacher, from the information that you've given.

[learnandsay]

So you agree that the teacher as you put it, is assessing children's attainment from the first morning, and so she works out, according to you, what the child can read independently and then sends the appropriate books home,

yes?

[yellowsubmarine53]

Is there something about my post that wasn't clear?

[learnandsay]

Do you agree or not?

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

learnandsay - are you this rude in RL?

[learnandsay]

It's logic. Logic has no frills.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

[mrz]

even when your logic is flawed learnandsay?

[learnandsay]

The flaw is:

[mrz]

According to your theory the teacher as you put it, is assessing children's attainment from the first morning, and so she works out, according to you, what the child can read independently and then sends the appropriate books home.

Actually it is according to government expectations learnandsay. Teachers have to track children from their first day in school to demonstrate progression.

Where your logic is flawed is you are arguing about something you don't understand ...you don't know what teachers are expected to do, you don't know how continuous assessment works and you appear not to understand or listen to what anyone says.

[simpson]

DD started reception on a Thursday (was only there till midday) and was assessed on her first day and came home with a book the following day.

I would assume this is because her surname begins with A and the teacher is doing it alphabetically.

They did not seem to have any phonics books when DS was in reception until about stage 4 when he got some very tatty songbirds books.

[learnandsay]

According to your theory the teacher as you put it, is assessing children's attainment from the first morning, and so she works out, according to you, what the child can read independently and then sends the appropriate books home.

That's what yellow has said and she either agrees with what she has said or she doesn't. It's not an argument.

[mrz]

Yellow has made a statement of fact that only you seem to disagree with learnandsay

[learnandsay]

She hasn't said that she does agree with it. When I asked the question she agreed to something similar but changed it. I was asking a specific question.

[Haberdashery]

It's not an argument.

It may or may not be an argument from your perspective, lands, but I can assure you that from the outside looking in it appears very much as though you are determined to argue with anyone who will play.

[Feenie]

Every night. And on most threads. Mostly just for the sake of it.