TEACHERS/PARENTS Opinions on tiny primary schools? Under 50pupils.

[educator123]

Thats it really. Just wondered what the general opinion of them is.

In a way i would think its a positive having so little pupils?

Any opinion valued, but would also be very grateful for teachers opinions

TIA

First thing I would say is look at how the classes are made up. At one small school we looked at there was a PAN of 8, which resulted in 2 classes - one R, Y1 & 2, and the other Y3-6.

Obviously they differentiated with TA small group work, but IMO it is not ideal.

Secondly, friendship groups - if there are such a small pool of children in the year and your DC doesn't get on with one or two, it is easier to escape them in a bigger school, also in mixed year groups they may make a best friend in a different year group and be lost when they move classes / leave the school.

Also has a average PAN of 8 (sometimes they have as little as two but the last few years have had 9-10...split over three classes.

Dependant on the spread across the school they vary the mixes. So last yr was R,1&2, 3&4, 5&6. This acedemic yr. R&1, 3&4, 4,5&6.

DSs went to a school with 50 ish pupils. The split classes was not ideal TBH. In the Year 3/4 class there was a fair bit of repetition.

Also when they did the class split in Reception/Year1. Half of the Reception class 'stayed down' with the new intake and the more able/older children 'went up' to the Year 1/2 class. Caused a lot of bad feeling, and ruined DS1's self esteem.

Luckily Year 4 was the last year and he went on to Middle School.

After school clubs were a problem, ie there had to be a minimum number which sometimes wasn't reached.

Also any inter-school competitions all of the DC were needed to take part whether they were any good at the sport or not. And all the other schools in the area were huge. They got beaten a lot.

My DS was also at a very small school; initially I thought it was ideal but there were just three classes from Reception to Y6 - if you didn't get on with the teacher you were stuck with them for two years . Very difficult to deal with the 'range' of abilities across two age groups. Very few other boys to be friends with.

No after school activities.

Everyone knew everyone - and their business (not always ideal ).

Very touch to transfer into a v=big secondary school.

So, it didn't suit my DS - fortunately we moved away so were able to put him into a much larger school which suited him better although he was a bit miffed as he was no longer one of the brightest

My children have both come through a tiny school and done very well. My daughter is in a mixed class of p4-7 and there is another class of p1-3. They all follow very individual programmes but work together for projects. They differentiate well. Yes, there are fewer children but they just learn to get on and make friends. My DD has 3 in her "year" and gets on well with both but she is friendly with everyone. It is more like a huge family. I know they do well as a result as I am a a High School teacher and work with the products of these schools. But we have no choice here (remote, rural) so I am not sure what I would choose but, to my mind, small means much, much more individual attention.

YY to everyone knowing everything Ragwort. Hotbed of gossip most of the time.

Is it in England? Before you decide, you might want to ask the school some very searching questions about how the local LEA is managing the new funding formula, especially after any interim arrangements (implemented after some very small schools in some counties could have lost 30%+ of thein income in a single year) are over.

Bsically, in some counties the new funding formula is disproportionately hard on small schools, with those under 100 being worst hit, and the smaller they are the worse is the effect. You have to bear in mind that 'economically' a school needs around 25 - 30 pupils per teacher. So a school of 50 should in reality only be able to fund 2 classes, though in many LEAs historically this has been offset by funding arrangements that have been more generous per capita to very small schools.

The effect locally is for some very tiny schools to become unviable, especially as schools just below 100 (which locally is an important threshold in the funding formaul) are scrabbling to seize extra numbers, often from the very small school.

I would say that the very small year groups, and very highly mixed-age classes would make me think twice, especially if you have a child who is in any way an outlier from the 'average', as being for 3-4 years in the same class may not be ideal. Also, in some areas where there is a mixed economy of small and larger schools, small schools can be seen by parents as 'better for children with special needs' and so I have encountered some extremely high SEN rates (50%+ per year group, exceptionally 75%) in very tiny schools near to larger ones IYSWIM.

I'm a teacher in a small village school and love it, really get to know the children well and cos I have them for two years I can really cater for their needs,.much more personal

Advantages: all of the staff know all of the children really, really well. Children feel safe really early on for this reason. Transition from one class to another can be really easy for this reason. Parents can tend to be more engaged in the PTA etc because they know there's no-one else to do it. Children are allowed to be friends with others of all ages because there is, after all, something slightly unnatural about expecting children to only play with people whose birthdays fall within six months or so of theirs. Most children will get a part in the play. Most children who want to will be on the sports teams. Most older children will get a chance to show responsibility (in a larger school only a few can be 'prefects').

Disadvantages: being in the same class with the same teacher for up to 3 years (well, a good thing if it's a fantastic teacher but even then kids/teachers can start to get on each others' nerves). Probably fewer after-school clubs. Almost definitely fewer in-school specialisms amongst the teaching staff. Can be difficult to find enough friends of the same age if the child won't play with older/younger children. Atmosphere at the school gate can be perceived to be cliquey (maybe not any more than at a large school in practice). Concerns over differentiating for abilities (conversely it can be easier to teach to the right level because children are being mixed by age already within one class in a natural fashion and used to being taught by ability rather than age). Could be see as worse preparation for secondary school (but then the children might be more confident due to more responsibilities given - see above).

I'm sure I'm missing many more...

teacher makes good points about the financial viability and whether the school is at risk, essentially, of being closed down. And about SEN. Small schools can attract parents who want a more caring environment for their dcs (it's why I chose a tiny school for my August born boy with Asperger's...)

And ash sounds just like the kind of teacher my ds was blessed with for 7 years!

I should be clear that having a large % of SEN is not an 'issue' (I managed to imply that it was by the sequencing of my post). Schools with high numbers of SEN children are often much better at differentiating for ALL than schools which are more used to being able to 'teach everyone the same' and so can be very good for all abilities. It's just something worth bearing in mind - especially as I believe that the new funding formula also affects the funding for SEN, so it may be that schools get less money to devote to SEN childen and this can have an impact if there is a very high proportion of them.

We moved house when I was 8 and DB (6) and I were sent to a 3 class primary school with about 48 pupils. The teachers were lovely and I think I learnt a lot, but socially it wasn't great, everyone else's families had known each other from the year dot and although I made a good friend straight away I was very unpopular when her previous best friend who I didn't know existed returned from holiday two weeks into term. Two of the others picked on me for my accent and it was impossible to get from any of them. Now obviously it's a bit different if you are there from the start, but it really did show to me that you had a limited pool of people to be friends with in such a small school. I transferred to a 2 form middle school for my last year before secondary and it was a huge relief to actually have a big pool of people to be friends with, none of my friendships from the small school lasted into secondary school.

Other drawbacks for me were - having to be on the netball team whether I liked it or not because there were only 7 girls in the junior class. Dreadful school dinners because they were brought in meals on wheels as not economical to cook on site. No hall on site - everything was done in the classroom, assembly, dinner, we all had to walk half a mile to the village hall for PE.

Ive researched the funding etc and the small school is not going to be heavily affected atm.
They have a tiny % of SEN.
There is a lovely warm family atmosphere, but i do worry slightly about mixed age groups but the school claim it only has benefits. So far the teacher/s have been lovely and the dcs seem very happy with them

There is the option of an 'AMAZING' School a bit further. 160 Pupils, one form entry, amazing reputation, head often headhunted, parents have said they feel like they are getting a 'free' private education. (We've had places offered)

BUT its a 10min drive over a short walk.

We are rural and very lucky that we have good schools to choose from, makes it hard in a way though, know which is 'best'