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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Whole class instrument lessons - what happens after the initial period?

22 replies

lingle · 09/01/2013 19:07

there's been a widespread scheme called "Wider Opportunities" running for the last few years. Essentially it's a whole class of children learning one, or a couple, of instruments - so the school down the road has had 30 kids on trumpet.

at our school we've got 26 of a certain kind of instrument but we're thinking of selling some. We reckon that if we did a whole class on that instruments for a year, only four or so would be drawn enough to it to continue afterwards once they had to pay for lessons.

So I'm scouting for experience. Did your child keep up lessons after their whole class experience and if so how many classmates did too?

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Yorky · 09/01/2013 19:24

No experience sorry, just finding the thought of 30 beginner trumpets in a room terrifying!

Hulababy · 09/01/2013 19:29

Does it matter if they don't keep it up?
Is not a year of it in music just an extra experience for some children, even if they can't take it further at that time?

You currently have a class set of the instrument - so you could just have a year of that instrument say for everyone when they are in Y4 - seems quite a nice idea to me. Would seem a shame to just sell them.

cumbrialass · 09/01/2013 19:46

I have a cupboard full of french horns, trumpets and trombones but no one who is able to teach them! Wider Opportunities became prohibitively expensive-from £600 one year to over £2000 the next so we had to stop ( we are a small school with limited funds) as we simply couldn't justify the costs.

Original poster

lingle · 09/01/2013 19:53

crikey cumbrialass that's not so great. And I bet that cupboard-full creates lots of storage issues for you too. I have to say I have heard similar rumours, especially in relation to brass instruments.

was it your LEA that was supplying the teacher to you? Do you know why the prices skyrocketed? Did the subsidy provided by the government run out after a year?

Do you own the instruments or does the LEA?

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LaBelleDameSansPatience · 09/01/2013 20:05

Cumbrialass, our school is just the same. Lots of instruments, no teacher.

Original poster

lingle · 09/01/2013 20:05

do they belong to you labelledame?

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KingscoteStaff · 09/01/2013 20:05

We do cello and violin in year 5 - 15 of each. We are in RBKC and I think they own the instruments.

Usually about 8 continue private lessons in Year 6.

Storage is a pain, though. In my previous school it was Wider Ops recorders - MUCH easier to store!

TravelinColour · 09/01/2013 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hels71 · 09/01/2013 20:43

I wish my school had a cupboard full of brass instruments! (but then I am a brass player!!!)

AChickenCalledKorma · 09/01/2013 22:09

My daughter carried on at the end of her wider opportunities year (clarinet). She was the only one in her year to do so .

silverfrog · 09/01/2013 22:15

dd2's (indie) school participates in a scheme run by the local council.

she is learning cello, along with as many of her classmates as want to (so not whole class - they are taken out in groups of 5/6 I think).

this is the second year she has done it - it is massively subsidised, and we hire the instrument and pay a (nominal) tuition fee.

the scheme runs in most of the local schools (both state and indie).

dd2 is happy to keep on with it, but I suspect that if I said she had to stop she wouldn't necessarily lose any sleep over it...

dd2 is in yr1, scheme runs from reception up.

silverfrog · 09/01/2013 22:16

oh, meant to say - the stay-on rate has been high.

and the school now has violin available as an option (free term taster) - high take up rate (not dd2, as she has too many extra curricular things on as it is, so she has stayed with just one instrument, but many of her classmates are now doing both cello and violin.)

Original poster

lingle · 10/01/2013 13:24

Silverfrog, was it compulsory in the first year, or was it "as many of her classmates as want to" then as well?

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Chopstheduck · 10/01/2013 13:30

The dts did the violin

Our school did something like this, subsidised by someone. First term was free, whole year did it, but in batches of 12 or so, so the school didn't have to have instruments for the whole year.

Second term was heavily subsidised (half price I think), third term full price. dt2 gave up before that, dt1 is just starting his second year playing and getting slightly more bearable to listen to! Looking at the timetable I think about 13 are still playing from that year group, so of 2.5 classes.

Chopstheduck · 10/01/2013 13:31

ours was done in conjunction with the local music school, so I guess they must have used the funds to hire instruments and pay for tuition from them. Which would be more economical.

silverfrog · 10/01/2013 13:33

no, not compulsory. neither is the violin tuition on offer now.

she has had a whole-class music lesson weekly from reception, and they have tried out various instruments during that (and will continue to do so) but it has mostly been voice/exploring rhythm and sounds.

the cello scheme is available at any point - eg one of dd2's friends has started just this term, so over a year since some of the children started, and a term later than others. not sure how long it is available for (in school year terms), whether it is an Early Years/KS1 thing, or whole school (prep) etc - will find out as we go on if dd2 wants to continue! she is reasonably musical (takes after dd1, obviously ) so she will doubtless do something - it is a question of balancing too many new things with opportunity to try out different instruments, especially since she does (a different) after school club every day due to me having lengthy school run with dd1.

Original poster

lingle · 10/01/2013 14:50

we go the non-compulsory route Silverfrog. It's a tricky one but until my ensemble numbers have firmly peaked I think we'll keep it that way (mind you, I expect some of the children are forced to go by their parents :))

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roadkillbunny · 10/01/2013 16:39

Dd in Y3 is doing guitar this year under one of these schemes. The who class do it (although now into their second term lessons are split into two groups on after the other). School provide the instrument which we take home. After the year they can continue with a subsidised lesson cost either staying on guitar or switching to another instrument (free choice, school will do their best to find a teacher but sometimes have to admit they are unable to provide for some instruments).
The stay on rate over all is good, although it is a village primary in an affluent area, I do think this dermagraphic factors unfortunately. I don't think many stick with guitar though sadly, some years non will keep on the guitar but we do have a nice range of instruments, the flute is very popular.
I don't know if dd will keep on with it, she doesn't have the most musical of ears but I really would like her to have an instrument as I didn't have to opertunity and have always wished I did. I would struggle with the cost even with subsidy but would find a way.
I think it is a wonderful scheme though as even just a year if tuition is really worth it. I will never forget getting to high school and looking forward to making use of the great music department but being told that as I hadn't already had tuition with an instrument I couldn't now take one up. The reason I hadn't was because my primary was a tiny school in a massively deprived area that simply was unable to offer such opertunities. I am so glad it is on the whole different these days.

Original poster

lingle · 10/01/2013 19:56

that's a sad story roadkillbunny....

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Labro · 10/01/2013 21:17

These schemes come under the 'fantastic idea but.....' category. As many of you have said, they are great whilst subsidised but awful once the full (often high) cost kicks in. The government often seems to have the idea that its the initial outlay that is the problem, but it dwindles into insignificance when you are suddenly asked to fork out at least £100 every 10 weeks for listening to something every evening for a long time which sounds like a duck honking lol (my ds plays piano and trombone, but as I'm a grade 8 brass player myself then I've been able to sort out the practise problem by doing it with him, otherwise I've no doubt he'd have given up by now)
To the teacher with the cupboard full of brass instruments, could you form some kind of partnership with a local brass band or concert band? They normally have some kind of learning programme for youngsters so that they have a feed later into the adult section and would literally bite your hand off to store the instuments in return for you loaning them to their learner level

Original poster

lingle · 10/01/2013 21:20

I guess it's good for those special individuals who "were never given the chance" to show talent.

But that's only solving the problem of a tiny percentage of children....

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3birthdaybunnies · 10/01/2013 21:51

Our school does steel pans, they start in yr3 and continue through juniors. It does sound good when a whole class are playing together, plus as it is a group instrument we don't have to get them to practise at home either.

Not sure what to do with a cupboard full of brass instruments. Does the school own them? Sell them on e-bay a few at a time and buy some recorders which might be easier for a non-music teacher to teach!

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