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Primary education

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Original poster

Letters and Sounds. Pros and Cons?

90 replies

SavoirFaire · 21/12/2012 23:47

This is the phonics programme used by the school we will probably put as 1) on out school list in Jan. What do I need to know about the pros and cons of this? Thanks.

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mrz · 22/12/2012 22:03

Why can't they be expected to read it learnandsay?

learnandsay · 22/12/2012 22:03

What is it?

TravelinColour · 22/12/2012 22:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tgger · 22/12/2012 22:05

I'm precise too and so far I have absolutely no problems in the phonics approach to reading. And why shouldn't you be taught how to sound words out, now I'm very confused!

learnandsay · 22/12/2012 22:06

Well, you'd have to ask the phonicsy people that, Travel. Apparently what I do is sound out, but it isn't phonics.

mrz · 22/12/2012 22:07

learnandsay Sat 22-Dec-12 21:58:07
"Learners can't be expected to read it." the same it as you wrote here

mrz · 22/12/2012 22:07

Phonics isn't a theory learnandsay

DizzyHoneyBee · 22/12/2012 22:08

In my experience, L&S is part of a phonics programme and not the whole phonics programme. We use a variety of phonics resources and L&S comes into play when doing catch up groups for children who are struggling, but not all resources we use are from L&S but are selected as the suit the phase we are working on. I wouldn't let it put me off a school unless perhaps it was all they used as long as I was happy with everything else. Plenty of reading and a variety of resources (i.e. books) that support phonics is more important IMO than what programme is used for phonics.

learnandsay · 22/12/2012 22:08

Well then, mrz, they can't be expected to read it because they can't possibly be expected to read it. It seems perfectly simple to me.

Tgger · 22/12/2012 22:12

I think mrz means the latter "it" ie "grey"?

mrz · 22/12/2012 22:14

Well since I would expect children to be able to read Beatrix Potter it doesn't seem simple at all learnandsay

mrz · 22/12/2012 22:16

No tgger I didn't mean "grey", which is a pretty basic ccv word, I mean to read books, any book including Beatrix Potter.

learnandsay · 22/12/2012 22:16

Because it depends on knowing that "ey" is pronounced "ay". Having only two common examples they and grey (the latter being one I think occurs rarely in children's reading) I believe that children are largely left with only one option which is to learn that the word they is pronounced in the way that it is pronounced. That in effect is learning a word on sight.

mrz · 22/12/2012 22:18

Fortunately learnandsay that isn't how children are taught.

learnandsay · 22/12/2012 22:19

ya, ya, ya, whatever. They still have to learn how to read it.

Tgger · 22/12/2012 22:21

oops, sorry mrz, shouldn't put words in your mouth. Beatrix Potter is quite tricky though, not as an expectation for children per se but for YR?

Learnandsay learning that "ey" sounds "ay" is not learning by sight. Still confused.

learnandsay · 22/12/2012 22:24

No, Tgger, it is not. But the whole point of learning that certain spellings can be pronounced in a particular way is that we use them in the way that we have been taught. But if the only word that we come across when we are very young readers spelled in a particular way is "they" then we have no other example to compare it with. Therefore we are forced to remember that single example. Learning a single stand-alone example is effectively learning a sight word.

Tgger · 22/12/2012 22:26

Not really. Your brain stores the sound if you are taught it like this and then you are more likely to say "grey" correctly when you see it.

learnandsay · 22/12/2012 22:28

Well, OK. If you believe that then you believe that. I don't.

Tgger · 22/12/2012 22:30

Hence my "antagonistic" description. Ah well, back to the horses and water....

mrz · 22/12/2012 22:36

But children aren't taught that way learnandsay ...they are taught the spelling represents the sound "ay" in they and in grey and in prey and in hey and in obey ...and if the words aren't in the child's vocabulary they become part of it. The child will read and spell words containing the "ay" sound with the spelling not just the word "they"

learnandsay · 22/12/2012 22:37

I wouldn't say so, no. My belief is that some children store and retain sounds because they come across them regularly, not because they've once been shown them. If you don't believe me, show your children some Welsh graphemes. Leave them unused for a couple of years and then ask them to pronounce the Lord's prayer written in Welsh, and see how well they get on.

Tgger · 22/12/2012 22:40

Errrr, still confused. Generally they cover the sound then they do come across it regularly, practising it in their reading books (you know the phonics ones you don't like).

mrz · 22/12/2012 22:41

Where do you get the idea that they are shown them once

learnandsay · 22/12/2012 22:42

Oh, I must have missed the grey, grey, grey one, then. Which one was it?

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