Is there a way of handling lack of homework?

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Dear all:

I'm well known here for grumbling about unimaginative and limited homework at DDs' school. Thus my hesitation to go into battle yet again about lack of homework. So I'd like to explain our situation and see what you Mumsnetters think about this:

Since Gove announced that he was removing guidance on homework our school has been 'reviewing' their homework policy. We parents received a letter in September saying that they were reviewing what homework would be offered and that spelling would move from a weekly list of words to more investigative work (i.e. making words verbs or adjectives, learning rules for certain groups of words - i.e. -ough words), etc... They also announced that there would be a parent/ staff meeting one evening (which was well attended) to discuss what parents wanted from homework and what the schools views on homework were (that was nearly 2 months ago).

It's the last week of term and still absolutely nothing from the school about what their homework policy will be.

Both DDs get a maths sheet (~10 minutes work, if that) and regularly get library books to read from school. No written work (writing a review, a letter, etc...). No topical work: researching a historical period, learning more about a topic, etc... And no investigative spelling work - unforutnately.

The school is proposing a grid (5 x 5) with options for homeworks which are entirely optional for each child to do - but children would get a merit for completing 5 a month. Each month a new grid would be issued.

Am I being unreasonable (AIBU) to think this shouldn't be taking so long?

Are other teachers/ schools struggling to come up with homework policy like ours?

Are schools opting to offer less homework now that government guidance on homework is removed?

Thanks for any input - I'm really struggling not to complain - but I'm completely astounded this is so difficult to organise.

Dressing up is appropriate when there is drama involved. But otherwise it is a complete waste of everyone's time.

No I don't think dressing up is essential to understanding or even enjoying a topic but it does seem to be the default for nearly every subject my dc have covered.

No problem with some fun stuff at school, ok dressing up maybe. Its just that after a day of that basic schoolwork is being sent back to be done at home that I mind. At primary age I think they need a break from school work when they're not there.

My ds came home recently with homework that was completely new to him and had not been covered in class at all (and this was maths so quite specific). I did write a comment on it but we had no reply.

My older dd was given a project when she was in yr 4. No way could she manage it by herself. The expectation outlined in the homework sheet required a very large amout of detailed research and it was a big project of 4 weeks duration. She had no clue where to even start with it at that age.

Many tears and upset over that whilst she struggled night after night, until I intervened. Teacher didn't want to know when I went in to discuss. Apparantly everyone else was enjoying it. So we did it 'with' her. (Ie practically for her.)

When the work was displayed it was obvious all the other parents had had a huge hand in the projects too. I can't see that achieved a thing.

We have lists and lists of ever more obscure words to spell and put into sentences. My dc are v good at spelling, they have the knack of it. But I have noticed that if you ask what a word means two weeks later they often don't remember.

Then there are the sats hoops to jump through. Those extracts from books with sheets of questions to answer. I don't think I'm cynical. I just think it's work for the sake of it.

I do get the point of times tables and reading. But even then I think fostering a love of reading doesn't come from forcing the issue to 5 entries book diary a week. Its too rigid.

Our school sets fab homework.... they leave times tables and reading up to children and parents and remind every so often.

All other homework is topic based - so WWII this term - they have a list of about 30 activities (from make a model to biographies, to time lines, to posters, to paintings, to ration amounts/costings etc) they cover the whole gamut of subjects, involve independent research, data gathering and presenting of findings. They are expected to choose one a week from the 30 to do in the term (so round 12 in total) , and it has really fired up their imagination. They get marked once a month.

ByTheWay,

The questions I would have about that type of homework is
a) Does it make assumptions about what a child has available to them at home e.g. computer access, and if not, is time allowed in school for children without computer access to do the homework?
b) Can children understand and complete the work independently, with minimal adult guidance required (ie the adult can help the child to find time to do the homework, and can point them to appropriate resources, but does not have to be directly involved - in other words, the child can do the homework themselves)?
c) Is the marking related to what the CHILD has achieved by themselves, or are higher marks obtained through parents doing the homework with for their children?

While I agree that the kind of homework you describe CAN be interesting and motivating, it CAN entrench disadvantage and it CAN end up rewarding - and expecting - parental effort rather than children's learning unless very carefully managed.

I would like to see homework stopped for primary age. I see very little benefit other than reading books and possibly learning tables.

I feel often homework is set for homework's sake, with the benefit mostly for the children whose parents have the time to help them. Those parents often would be helping them anyway.

Dressing up is appropriate when there is drama involved.
There is always drama involved once a child puts on a costume ... it's the nature of children. However costumes are a great way for children to gain a sense of time or place or culture without any "acting" or drama just a feeling of empathy.

I am of the same view as DeWe and several others on this thread : I hate homework and don't think it is making a fat lot of difference to the development of my 2 DSsY2 & Y4. I would rejoice if there was none, and am very pleased on days when they get none as it leaves the evening blissfullly free to do as they please. I take the view that homework is to be be got out of the way asap and that then leaves us to do what we want ( be that times tables or watching ice age on tv).

I did none before the age of 10 personally.

My least favourite is any sort of project, but fortunately our school doesn't seem to go in to that. most of those seem to be some wort of wierd inter-parental competition.....

My daughter's school has just sent home a homework questionnaire to get parental opinion because there were complaints that there was too little at last parents' evening.

My child year 5 gets about half an hour each week apart from reading, times tables and spelling which I think is fine. Not sure why the complaining parents can't do extra work themselves with their children.

The best homework is that which children do for themselves. We've been writing stories about myths/mythical creatures,which we turned into little books in class. Several children were so excited by this, that they went home and wrote their own and then brought them in.
And when we did a topic about the solar system, some children went home and looked up facts or drew and painted some beautiful pictures....all without being asked to.

But when we actually set homework, we're lucky if we get any back.

teacherwith2kids - I totally get where you are coming from, and have been really encouraged by our school's views on exactly those points.....

the teachers at our school specifically requested that parents do not help with homework other than a prod in the right direction (thankfully they even wrote it down - so we parents can say - just do what YOU can...)

none of it is required to be done on computers - you can use them for research if you want to, but they also provide the text books from class and (from Y5 up) have a school library homework session once a week to let them use the encyclopaedias, other factual books etc - along with a lesson every month (again Y5 up) on how to use books/magazines/videos/computers for good research.

Y6 are encouraged to present some of their homework using computers as an aid (either for power point/video presentation or typing up/ printing out) , but there is a homework club at lunchtime where they can have time on the school computers and can also email their work to be printed out if they can use a computer at home - so the expense of printing is reduced.

The marking is generally supportive marking rather than a numeric 8/10 type marking - comments on what has been done, remarking on any innovative presentation or where things need expansion - guiding the kids on where they are doing really well, or conversely where the teacher thinks they could have done a bit more work....

Probably 2 out of 5 topic homeworks will only require 20 min work - allowing for busy week/weekends too. It seems -from a parent's point of view at least - to have been really thought about.

The primary teachers whose children I mind are all unanimous:

Apart from reading daily, homework set in Primary schools is to keep the parents happy: it has no benefit for the children.

I realise this has diverged into a debate about dressing up - but returning to 'homework' and type I'd like...I think the homeworks described by jamdonut sound great: optionally letting a child do more on a topic like the solar system if they're interested [although I can appreciate if mandatory and too large a projectc this could end up being a huge amount of work for parents - as DeWe has rightly said does go on].

Recently, my DD2 didn't finish a little booklet they were doing in class (she started late due to an in-school music lesson) so she was allowed to bring it home. [very unusual at our school - happening because there was a substitute teacher I think]. DH helped DD2 find websites and print out pages she wanted, but she did all the research, selecting pictures to trace, cut out and paste in or if black and white to colour in. She spent time on it after our Saturday/ Sunday outings and before dinner/ strictly come dancing time. Maybe 3 hours all in. She absolutely adores this topic (a historic period) and had been to a few sites herself (so DH printed a few out she included in her booklet as well).

She was the only child to have done anything like that apparently - although the teacher had suggested everyone could do more if they wanted.

This is the kind of homework that excites my kids - not a photocopied comprehension/ grammar workbook sheet or a photocopied maths problem sheet.

Responding to Teacherwith2kids:

The questions I would have about that type of homework is
a) Does it make assumptions about what a child has available to them at home e.g. computer access, and if not, is time allowed in school for children without computer access to do the homework?
b) Can children understand and complete the work independently, with minimal adult guidance required (ie the adult can help the child to find time to do the homework, and can point them to appropriate resources, but does not have to be directly involved - in other words, the child can do the homework themselves)?
c) Is the marking related to what the CHILD has achieved by themselves, or are higher marks obtained through parents doing the homework with for their children?

My replies:

a) sometimes homework is through computer but school does work out who has computer access and who doesn't. Those without home computer are given time to do work during lunches/ recess.

b) Not usually. Often no instructions. Often no explanation of new maths method. Usually photocopied worksheets that the teacher actually hasn't attempted to time - so we have wildly varying homework from 30 minutes to 4 hours. Also each year a nice letter sent home saying on Tuesdays this homework is given and Friday it is collected, etc... - and that system never actually happens. Very chaotic delivery of homeworks - so very difficult to build a schedule for that work here at home. In the end if they give something in the week asking for next day return and we've got an event on (going to a play, a recital, visiting family/ friends, birthday party, etc... )- I send in a note saying that DD1 or DD2 will be doing the homework, but unforutnately it was not possible to do it in one day because of X event.

c) Marking. Our school just ticks the homework. No comments usually. In KS1 there are stickers. Only comments were in YR and Y1 in reading diary - about once a term a comment on the reading was made. Oddly enough DD1 weak reader - all comments amazingly positive. DD2 strong reader - all comments really negative: "Must try and read every word if she wants to move up a group." "Must be more expressive." "Must try and predict more." (the predict more with no explanation really threw me at first. [I think this 'marking' question is really where my confusion lies. From my perspective - aside from pressing 30 on the photocopier and getting out the green pen to tick the homework when its handed in (no correction of spelling, grammer, incorrect sums, etc...) no actual teaching work is involved with homeworks for my DDs - it's photocopied, handed out and ticked [never corrected though] when handed in. But maybe this is where our school, and its standards is the problem?]

That's our situation folks. But I agree with comments earlier - I begin to think that the problem is deeper than just homework I think.

To those who say that Primary homework is good preparation for secondary, I will quote a friend of mine who is retiring in the summer after 30+ years of secondary teaching.

"The worst thing that happened to homework for secondary schools was primary schools starting to set their own. At least before then, doing your homework at secondary school was a sign of being grown-up enough to do it, and their was some pride in the homework timetable and homework diary. Now all the children already hate homework, and have got their excuses and moans off to a fine art before they even come to us!"

Op, trying to fathom your original point as to why it has taken so very long to get this straight in your school. I've worked in school a long time as a teacher and now work in a lot of schools in teacher training capacity.

I've whizzed through the thread so may have missed this but have your school got Ofsted imminent? Have they had staff changes recently? Have they got other extraneous circumstances placing staff under pressure? I'm not saying that any of this excuses what you feel is lack of organisation but schools are under more pressure now than I ever recall and I wonder what is going on in there to make things difficult. If you make a promise then understandably parents will expect this to happen quickly but a term passes by at lightening speed.

I have a very different view in terms of homework. I don't believe it is necessary at Primary age. I don't think children 11 and under need such pressures. Reading at home, great but any more than that no. I had not one scrap of homework at primary school. I did OK! I did however used to write newsletters each half term sharing what we were learning about, in some detail and how it linked to the curriculum, to keep parents informed and hopefully so that learning at home and school might be linked.

I despair of how Ofsted and league tables have worked their magic over the years so that there is such a strong sense of pressure on what it means to perform 'well' as a 7 and 11 year old. We focus on reading (don't even start me on phonics) and writing and maths, at the expense of creativity and a lust for learning through play and experiential activities that will leave their legacy for far longer. As teachers we are pulled to get children to do things that don't even feel meaningful (writing learning objectives in their books every day etc) because of the hidden fear that Ofsted might see the books. I use this as a shallow example but the sheer self policing we do astounds me. The level a child sholud be, the top table and so on and so forth, I'll be honest, it all makes me shudder.

If I think back to when I've enjoyed learning, really enjoyed learning - it want ever a worksheet or a letter or any single piece of homework. It was baking with my mum, learning to suck nectar from nettle flowers with my dad, lying in my back on the beach with my grandad learning constellations, learning about shapes with a giant ball of wool and a particularly inspirational maths teacher.

This is a rant from a frustrated educationalist and it is purely my view and not intended as any kind of attack. But there are a million and one joyously fun things that children could be doing with their time other than primary homework that would line their brains with a spark for learning. Something went wrong somewhere.

Blaming iPad and speed of typing on appalling typos.

PSBD I think you've misread what jamdonut said; she was singing the praises of giving children the freedom to go off and do their own thing. SO if your DC comes out of school chatting away about the solar system, you decide that between you you can make a model. If they come out talking about Ancient Egypt you can take them to the museum on a Saturday morning and do one of their exhibit worksheets.

If primary aged children are given homework then that constrains them to the set work, and reduces the time where you have the freedom to look into the thing they are learning about that interests them most atm. And if nothing gets their imaginations firing this term then you have more time to go and do your own little project because you don't have to do the school one. The library will have books full of project ideas.

This has been interesting for me as I have felt let down by our school frequently regarding homework. They publish at the start of the year (on each class page of school website) what the homework will consist of. For example weekly spellings, weekly maths plus a half termly project.

My issue has been that they then don't do that. We get that level of work about 25% of the weeks at the most. Many weeks nothing (some years with some teachers half a term with nothing) then just as we adjust to that we get the whole lot for a few weeks then nothing again.

I have complained about lack of homework but this thread has made me realise that it's not homework I want it is that I want to know what is being covered that week (and in the coming two or three weeks) so we can build on it with our child and provide opportunities to practise recently learnt things.

I loathe beyond belief the half termly project which comes with no clear instructions or success criteria and the brief is to "take it any direction" so can be a clay model or a giant power point presentation. Days are then taken over with each of the 34 children presenting to the class in 20 -30 minute time slots. For this reason they are often PP presentations including chunks of information pasted from the internet! I think these half termly projects were introduced to all KS2 classes a year ago so there was always homework (and homework that didnt need marking) BUT the homework we complained about not getting was the maths & literacy.

Personally I wanted homework to know specufically what they were learning and also because I assumed it it was school published policy that the teacher was short changing my child by not providing it. When they did provide it a few weeks in succession the previous week(s) were often not marked!

I think I am a good parent but I also think in life getting a steer from the experts in whatever you are dealing with is invaluable. My wish would be for school to provide a timely steer as to how I can best support my child with his learning in the same way we guide the users within our field of expertise.

I have had more steer in a couple of months of MN membership from Mrz et al than from our entire six years of experience at our outstanding primary school.

I do love these threads. The spectrum is fascinating.
We have lots of homework at our school. Far too much, in my opinion. Year 4 are expected to do 10 minutes every night. They get set a maths sheet once a week, and a literacy one once a week. They have spellings. On a wednesday , if any work hasn't be done, it is expected to be 'finished off'. And they are also expected to read 3 days a week minimum. So on the nights that they may not have any homework, or if they have no finishing off, they are expected to read.

All seems like far too much to me. I just want them relaxing, or out playing on thier bikes.
They also have victorian days, and dressing up school visits . And victorians is their topic this term.
And letter writing, using the flat stanley method. ds now has a flat stanley penpal in france. All done within class.

Plus, whent he latest Bond film came out, at home , ds took it upon himself to google Roger Moore's fan club address, and write to him to tell him that ds thought he ws the best bond ever. Dh and i were most impressed. How we laughed , bless his cotton socks.

Is that the kind of things you were refering to when someone suggested letters to people that the children admire?

So, it does goes on Op. The kind of homework you wish for. Me personally, it all sems too much. I feel sorry for the children and the teachers. So I am the opposite of you.

Our school has no homework beyond reading in Ks1 but is constantly under pressure from some parents to give more.
I just don't understand why those in favour can't do it themselves if they're so keen and let the rest of us alone. I attended a very tense parents meeting on the subject where I was very much in the minority. I'm glad to see the evidence is on my side.
As a working parent with a baby too I would find it very hard to get major homework done and it would detract from my quality time with dd. Parents of 3 or more were also against. Those from more disadvantaged backgrounds didn't turn up to the meeting of course.
Many people did seem to feel it would enable them to know what was going on at school better but there are regular curriculum newsletters and parents evenings for that purpose.
Dd is interested in history so we go to museums and historic places. They nearly always have quizzes or trails these days. In the summer hold we do a diary/scrapbook. I feel like it is perfectly possible to support learning in a fun way without homework.
OP maybe you just need to move schools if you are so unhappy with their results and methods or accept that you will be propping things up with extra tuition at home. It really doesn't sound like homework is going to be the answer.

There is no use of primary school homework.

rabbitonthemoon:

Fascinating point with some very good points and really appreciate the teacher's perspective on this.

in response to: I've whizzed through the thread so may have missed this but have your school got Ofsted imminent? Have they had staff changes recently? Have they got other extraneous circumstances placing staff under pressure? I'm not saying that any of this excuses what you feel is lack of organisation but schools are under more pressure now than I ever recall and I wonder what is going on in there to make things difficult. If you make a promise then understandably parents will expect this to happen quickly but a term passes by at lightening speed.

OFSTED was last year: that year the school had one math homework a week (~5 - 10 minutes), weekly spelling list which moved to investigation (how to add prefixes/ suffixes, how to make a noun a verb, think of as many words as you can with -ough that sound like 'oh' or sound like 'oo'), reading diary with about 20 examples of things that can be done in relation to nightly reading (recommended 10 minutes a night).

STAFF changes: One teacher has retired and a new male teacher has been hired (he was formerly a secondary teacher, so very experienced).

PRESSURE: School is expanding, so there is a lot of building work going on - but given they've assured us until the cows come home that this has no affect whatsoever on our children's day to day learning, I kind of presume that also applies to day to day teaching.

PROMISES: I think at core I link the repeatedly sending us a letter at the beginning of year with a week grid showing homework out on a certain day and turned in on a certain day and shiny new homework diaries (A5 ruled notebooks) and then doing nothing is disappointing to say the least.

What I hear is this. If a school focuses on the good old fashioned 3 Rs and really does there job there and attempts to cross fertilise elements of the curriculum (so writing about a historic period, or making up a play against bullying, etc...) school can be the kind of place where a huge amount of learning is going on and there is littl need to do more at home - sure do some if you're interested, but it isn't necessary.

Hi mumchat:

Thanks for your post and I especially think you've hit the nail on the head with: I have complained about lack of homework but this thread has made me realise that it's not homework I want it is that I want to know what is being covered that week (and in the coming two or three weeks) so we can build on it with our child and provide opportunities to practise recently learnt things.

That information just isn't making it home at our school at least.

As an example for everyone - I've grabbed the OUR LEARNING JOURNEY sheet for Year 3.

At the start of term we get a little hand written sheet with pre-laid out boxes on overall learning theme, SEAL, RE, Literacy, Numeracy, Science/ Geography, etc...

Interestingly this year (DD2 Y3) received her sheet with Jungle Book as the learning theme.

I was over the moon. Fantastic some classic children's literature instead of the endless parade of Horrid Histories, Wimpy Kid, Horrid Henry, etc.... (which my children adore and has got them reading, but aren't exactly brilliant English prose). Some Kipling - wonderful to see that on the curriculum - excellent for children to really get exposed to his craft with English language.

Geography would include plants and animals of India. And foods of India (again thinking fab some parents at school are Indian and Sri Lankan - maybe they'll be asked in to demonstrate some favourite foods, talk about India/ Sri Lanka and tell stories of favourite animals there.

ACTUALITY: they watched Disney's jungle book.

The section on 'Ideas for home' was also a hoot:

1. Explore our new virtual learning page (computer based learning resource designed for each year group).

2. Find out about plants growing in your garden and grow new ones together.

RE 1: the virtual learning page (VLE) hasn't been updated since September. We don't bother any longer. The web pages suggested to visit we already know about and use regularly. No links to web pages on Jungle Book/ Kipling/ India/ Jungles/ tigers/ etc... even though learning theme is Jungle Book.

RE 2: odd suggestion that going into winter we should start growing plants together. I do this anyway (usually in warmer months) - indeed most parents at the school do - so we're kind of ? but we opted to plant some bulbs together. We've also taken a cutting from a house plant which has worked fortunately.

We had a speach bubble near point 2 about the fact that there would be an allotment created by Y3 outside their class. This has never happened.

Numeracy was very interesting: And I quote - "number knowledge: place value, partitioning, calculating, times tables and written methods. Shape, space and measures. Collecting and representing data."

As one parent said - glad that they took the time to make this parent friendly.

Now I get what much of this is hinting at - but it's vague and hasn't been differentiated for ability at all (all 30 got same photocopied letter).

Oh and 'my child's learning targets' in reading/ writing/ math - all written in 'Individual targets to come home soon' - which at parent teacher meeting was a hand out of simplified APP grid (for teachers out there) and us being told that at start of year they start them from scratch on the grid, presuming some 'loss of learning' over the summer months.

Again I think the issue is beyond lack of homework - but is about my searching to find things to help my kids learning and make things clearer or easier when they're struggling. I so agree with you mumchat Mumsnet has been so helpful when I've really struggled to work out what I can do or needed advice.

Forgot to add - DD2 (Y3) now believes orangutans live in India too (as well as Sumatra/ Borneo).

I started to correct her and tears welled up in her eyes and she said but Miss X said they're in India, she can't be wrong.

I've let it go. If you're interested in actual characters as opposed to Disney characters from Kipling's Jungle book try en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Jungle_Book_characters - there's no King Louie

past much as I stand by my belief that you don't need school homework to have a huge impact on your children's love of learning and progress (the things you could do with jungle book! Love the theme and as for showing the film, well have you had a look at visual literacy? They might be doing inspirational things with it..) I do feel you frustration. It would almost be better if the promises weren't made in the first place wouldn't it? It sounds to me as if they have someone in there with a clear vision of how they want things to be in terms of partnerships with parents. The trouble is in school, you can have the vision but you need the entire staff to come with you and deliver it. You will probably never get to the bottom of the politics of why this isn't happening.

If it was me, I would just focus on doing things at home that I felt were engaging, motivating and supporting your children's education. All of the primary frameworks for lit and numeracy (though of course this is all in flux but they would give you an idea) are online and just talking the jungle book and growing example (I share your at the growing!) can be unpicked and explored as a family. I just doesn't sound as if your school have got it together to think like a team and deliver yet. But the ideas are there. I'm my experience of school websites they are not usually well updated (of course there are some exceptions) There are grand visions at the start which end up being impossible to keep as well as planning/marking/resourcing/eating. Better really to keep them simple with contact details and newsletters unless there is a keen member of staff to keep things up to date. I have never known a teacher given hours or time to do this.