A question about certificates, all may answer but would like a teacher's view too please

[PiggeryJokery]

Do you think they are a good or a bad thing?

I am getting more and more pissed off about certificates, in our case presented for good work once a week in assembly. Sure they are a good way of recognising good work publically, but when it's your child getting increasingly despondent that they haven't yet had one this term, when other classmates may have 2 or even 3, they don't work do they? But if you give one to half the class every week then they become devalued. Or do they? If you're in Yr1 any bit of praise and acknowledgement is brilliant, and motivating. Poor ds has to sit and clap everyone else, sometimes more than once, this term but has had nothing himself. He's a nice child, bright, works hard, not above a bit of silliness I know. But if he wasn't getting a certificate because of poor behaviour if expect to be told about that direct, not have to fathom it out from a lack of public praise.

If you were a teacher and a parent raised this with you nicely, would you think they were annoying and pushy, that the child just had to wait his turn, no matter how long it took, or that you had a fair point?

Perhaps FromEsme with your in depth knowledge you can explain how a certificate check list ensure the quiet child isn't overlooked on a daily basis or is it OK to ignore them for most of the week/term/year as long as you notice they haven't had a certificate yet?

Gosh mrz a little aggressive there. Obviously I know that that is a problem - I don't think I said anywhere it was. But just because a checklist is in place to make sure everyone has a certificate doesn't mean the children ARE being over-looked either, does it? Maybe the certificates are just one in a long list of things a teacher has to do and they are in the back of their mind so they don't have any huge importance attached to them.

I know what it's like being a quiet, over-looked child and it is something that I work very hard to reverse with the children I work with.

No it isn't a problem FromEsme it's quite simple to make sure you talk to each pupil about what they are doing and give praise on a daily basis

Yes, it is, in theory. Unfortunately, it doesn't always happen in practice.

We give a merit badge each week and I keep a record of it because even though I speak to every child everyday and praise them daily, I can never remember who I have given a merit to.
Also, both of my children went through at least 2 years of school without ever receiving a cerificate while all others received multiple ones. And it did bother them lots.
OP - I would go in & speak to the teacher if he has gone through a full school year without one but other than that, just wait. I know it is difficult though.

Perhaps some teachers are so busy with their check lists they don't have time

Perhaps mrz and perhaps not. How can we possibly know.

At the junior school my DDs' attended, good work (for that particular child) is given a stamp, and a certain number of stamps equals a merit. They have to go to the HT's office to be awarded the merit, which then goes on a wall chart of all girls. After a certain number of merits have been achieved, they are given a certificate which is awarded at assembly.

There are also house points which are given for kindness, courtesy and so on.

So, children get awards for working hard within their own level, rather than being the best in the class at something.

A similar system runs at DS's junior school.

Now the girls are at two different senior schools, similar systems run at their respective schools.

I agree with mrz that awards should not be given because it's that child's "turn" but also think that children should see that they rewarded for putting in an effort.

Mrz, unfortunately in an environment where children believe these certificates really matter it becomes important to provide ahead for your own weaknesses. We'd get the " certificate book" on a busy Friday lunchtime or early afternoon. I'd often have already chosen the 2 kids to receive the certificate but not always. The checklist helped me focus instead of rushing in for the sake of it when already tired and overloaded, and sometimes I'd have made a couple of notes about the steady achievers but another child had pipped them to it previously.

Surely it is sensible to ensure you have a simple practical solution to prevent mistakes. It's something I started doing voluntarily after a few years of teaching and realising that with more responsibilities it was no longer quite wise to trust my memory on a Friday! Nothing to do with how I worked with quiet kids during the week.

I'm not sure how a check list ensures the deserving child receives the certificate ...If a child works really hard in my class they would receive instant recognition and I would make a note if I thought the effort should be acknowledged in a school assembly ...

Let's face it, certificates and all that are shite. The children care about them, but ultimately they are unlikely to actually help them in their education.

I'd still rather make sure everyone had got one and that I hadn't missed people out, while still continuing to give support to ALL the children in my class.

I expect the children receive instant recognition as well as a certificate. It is not necessarily one or the other.

I mean instant recognition in the form of a certificate or medal or trophy (just not presented in a whole school assembly)

Saw this today and it made me think of this thread...

The teachers amongst you - would you say that we should be concerned about dd's behaviour & effort if she hasn't had a merit certificate in 5 years (approximately 50 children per year group & 1 certificate given out for each year every week)

She just thinks its not worth making an effort now.

Picturesinthefirelight I think it's worrying that your DD is motivated purely by the offer of a certificate. Your DD needs to be intrinsically motivated to succeed. At some point in her life, regardless of whether she receives 1 certificate or 100 now, she is going to need to be able to motivate herself rather than relying on external validation.

If your DD is only motivated extrinsically, then I suggest you tackle this before she enters secondary school, where it's very much a small fish, big pond sort of environment and she will find the sink or swim attitude very hard to manage.

She's not purely motivated by the offer of a certificate. I think rather she has become demotivated because she feels that her efforts are never recognised.

Or maybe she just hasn't ever put any effort in.

She complains that several disruptive children disrupt her favourite lesson (music) yet she has always done her best in her most hated subject (PE) but these disruptive children seem to get lots of recognition in the form of certificates and mentions for sporting achievement. (School is very sporty)

She's also not very popular and amongst the group if friends she does have - tends to get bossed around when working in groups etc. her friend throws a tantrum if she doesn't get her own way for example. This friends mum has complained about her not getting a certificate - so she was given one the following week.

I'm deluding myself arnt I? She obviously doesn't work hard enough.

Will stop going on about it now.

Picturesinthefirelight

If it's been the same story for 5 years, then either it's a whole school system that isn't recognising her efforts, or she isn't showing her effort. What do her school reports say? Do they give marks for effort?

Unfortunately, there will always be some children who throw tantrums when they don't get their own way, but you (and the teacher) need to make sure your daughter knows that she should stand her ground with children like that. Otherwise, she will become life's door mat and the friend will become a brat.

Pictureinthefirelight exactly my point too. My DD also in the same boat as yours and has never been purely motivated by a certificate as she's only mentioning it now after more than 4 years of nothing. It's just she feels her efforts aren't recognised although that doesn't stop her working to the best of her abilities still. She's quiet and pretty much average at everything, so by no means struggling but not the brainiest one either. In her class the strugglers seem to get one and the very high achievers.

I'm not going to mention it as I want her to gain one for her own merit not because I've caused a stink.

They earn merit points for their house so she does get plenty of those luckily but this is the 'cup' that is given to the child who has over excelled every week - not just good work but being kind and helpful etc. Every report I get for DD it says what a pleasure she is to teach and how helpful and kind to her peers she is so that for me is enough and I make sure she reads her report too so she know how well she's doing but a tangible prize of a cup would be wonderful to have (it's just for the weekend and then given back for the next weeks' prize earner).

She did have a bit if a coasting year in year 4 where she got 2's and 3's for effort but last year after a rollicking from us (she still got good exam results) she got all 1's & 2's for effort. Teachers say she is a pleasure to teach and talented in music & drama.

Ds reports have always been 3's and 4's for effort - always being called in over problems he doesn't like scho yet as I say he has has two of the certificates in the last 3 years.

I reckoned you could tell the tick box teachers by what they gave the awards for. They always tended to be bland stuff not really special to the child.

For example when dd1 got one for "getting all her sums right" with one teacher she explained to me that they were doing a new topic and none of the others had got it all right. Very proud she was.

The next year she got a certificate for the same thing, and she was because she said she usually (if not always) got them all right, and so did all the people on her table. It was clearly a tick box exercise for that teacher, and she wrote the name and thought of what it could be for after.

Mind you the first teacher I thought one of her gifts was what she awarded the certificates for. They were always well thought out, directly for that child, and worded in such a way that that child was the only one who could get it-and every child had at least one a term. Really motivating for the children, because they felt they'd worked and deserved it.