Phonics screening test

[Mashabell]

There is a very good article on the madness of the phonics screening test in todays i (the 20 p version of The Independent) and some of its silliest effects.

Lands,

I think that you are confusing the acquisition of speech with the correct use of language.

No, I'm not, but anyway, if children were brought up in an environment which had no speech but only had writing they'd pick that up instead. In signing families they pick up signing. The reason why speech looks so natural is because children are constantly practising it. If they practised reading and writing at the rate that they practice speaking they'd look natural at that too.

And the reason why some societies didn't develop writing (that we know of) is because they didn't need it. Writing starts with recording goods and develops as trade and commerce develop. Off the top of my head I can't think of an advanced civilisation which had no form of writing, (not even a pictorial one. )

if children were brought up in an environment which had no speech but only had writing they'd pick that up instead

Interesting thought, lands. Do you know of any examples of this happening?

Can I be very pesky and ask a quick related question please?

Pupils who did not pass the Y1 phonics test last time are I think required to retake it in Y2?

Will these results be reported separately or together with the 'new' Y1 results, does anyone know?

Thanks.

I realise it isn't the best choice of word maizieD but I'm not sure how to describe a child who has not been taught to recognise/read whole words and can in fact read words without previously having encountered them ...perhaps that is an unnatural whole word reader. Any suggestions?

Sorry, no suggestions, mrz, but do you have any idea how he managed to do that?

"Then train your PGCE student mrz - they spend over 300 hours on placement and the school,is a partner in training." and when do you propose I train my student squeezed? I'm still in my class full time either teaching, supporting, observing or completing the paperwork the university requires. I'm still running my intervention groups before and after school and during my lunch "breaks" ...I'm still covering 10 playground duties ...

No idea how he (or the other children I've encountered who are unnatural readers) does it CecilyP but they were all autistic and hyperlexia is sometimes found to be a co-morbitity.

Maizied, we only know one deaf family. The parents met in a school for the deaf and they have one daughter who is also deaf.

Here's an interesting link www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/may/31/familyandrelationships.disability

Hope I'm not hi-jacking, but Mrz I don't quite understand what you are saying about your son being able to "read" words he had not encountered before.

Do you mean that:

• he could read aloud (recognise the written form of) any word he already had heard spoken without sounding it out?
• he could correctly pronounce a word he had never heard before, simply by seeing it written down, but without "sounding it out"?
• he could understand the meaning of a written word, out of context, despite never hearing it before.

I know from previous threads that his spelling let him down later on, do you think this was because he was storing the shape of whole words in his brain, without seeing them as individual letters?

choccy, the words were probably all in some kind of familiar English context. I'm guessing he would have has less luck if they were written in Latin, Greek, Arabic or Sanskrit.

choccyp1g my son has autism and a condition called hyperlexia

Hyperlexia Symptoms
The severity, frequency, and grouping of the following symptoms will determine an actual diagnosis

? A precocious ability to read words far above what would be expected at a child?s age
? Child may appear gifted in some areas and extremely deficient in others

? Significant difficulty in understanding verbal language
? Difficulty in socializing and interacting appropriately with people
? Abnormal and awkward social skills
? Specific or unusual fears
? Fixation with letters or numbers
? Echolalia (Repetition or echoing of a word or phrase just spoken by another person)
? Memorization of sentence structures without understanding the meaning
? An intense need to keep routines, difficulty with transitions, ritualistic behavior

Additional Symptoms:
? Normal development until 18-24 months, then regression
? Listens selectively / appears to be deaf
? Strong auditory and visual memory
? Self-stimulatory behaviour (hand flapping, rocking, jumping up and down)
? Think in concrete and literal terms, difficulty with abstract concepts
? Auditory, olfactory and / or tactile sensitivity
? Difficulty answering "Wh?" questions, such as "what," "where," "who," and "why"

The symptoms in bold are those displayed by my son ...

Do you mean that:

• he could read aloud (recognise the written form of) any word he already had heard spoken without sounding it out? yes

• he could correctly pronounce a word he had never heard before, simply by seeing it written down, but without "sounding it out"? yes

• he could understand the meaning of a written word, out of context, despite never hearing it before. no

Thanks Mrz, I hope my question didn't sound as though I was disbelieving you, I am just fascinated by how your DS' hyperlexia works.

He is the same with maths he can be given a complicated calculation question and in his words he "just sees the answer in his head" ...

Mrz, there's the problem. You complain about the quality, take the money from the universities and then absolve yourself of responsibility. Perhaps you could train your student with the time freed up when they have taken 60% of your timetable off you.

But the student is teaching in that time

I work throughout KSR/1/2 and can't recall children ever being admonished for correct spelling. Will have to read all thread to see if any teachers have posted otherwise. We do encourage phonics initially but that's alongside looking at the sight or tricky words.

Reading the DM is like taking a trip down memory lane and talking to my ex 'conspiracy theories'r'us' partner. Happy days!

"Perhaps you could train your student with the time freed up when they have taken 60% of your timetable off you."

There is a slight flaw in your plan squeezed ...if the student is teaching the class then how can I teach the student (that and the fact that I'm in the class supporting and observing during the 60% time) but if you can work out how we both can be in two places at once I'm more than willing to give it a go

Just to mirror what a poster further down said, that most children, when taught phonetics, quickly pick up on the inherent naughtiness of written English, how it likes to mess about with it's own rules.

And to be fair that's no big feat when you think how they quickly learn the subtleties of other rules i.e. farting at the dinner table with Mum = okay , farting at the dinner table with Aunt Maud = NOT okay.

After all is it unreasonable to expect universities who are paid by the students to teach them to the basics before sending them into schools ...and for your information I don't take any money from the universities ...what I get from the deal is a hugely increased workload

Mrz, your school gets paid to take students. They then teach 60% of your timetable. This is so that they can put into practice what they get at uni (which I accept is still too little but it's what we can deliver with the funding formula and numbers we're given). As you know full well, delivering something as interactive and multi sensory as phonics sticks far better when it is taught in real life to real children. The university and the school take on a partnership with dual responsibility for the training of the student, which is why the TDA and Ofsted visit schools in the partnership before passing judgement on the quality of the training. While your student is teaching your classes (one of which per week you are obliged to observe), you are freed up to do other planning, resource making and marking so that you can assist your student when she is free. You are also of course training him or her whenever you teach - judging by your posts, I'd say this is a high quality experience in itself. I don't mean to sound rude, but it does irritate me when teachers criticise student teachers and the provision at universities without accepting that we all, whether in or out of school, carry some responsibility for the provision of teacher training.

Have you actually been a teacher with a student in your class squeezed ...I have to complete observations (with all the accompanying paperwork) on TWO lessons per DAY! when I'm not observing I'm in the class supporting because I don't have a TA and do have a lively class ... I don't get any free time ... when my student isn't teaching I am so it leaves us with no time to actually give any quality phonics input. Yes she has seen me teach phonics but that is hardly a substitute for real phonics training. There is something very wrong when my Y1 children know more about phonics than the "teacher".

but it does irritate me when teachers criticise student teachers
You are mistaken I am not criticising student teachers I'm criticising the ITT establishments.

Mrz, as I said in an earlier post, I am a teacher currently working in a class and yes, I also have a student. I am on secondment from my university. And it's not really that hard.

So how much free time do you have on your hands squeezed?

So how much free time do you have on your hands squeezed? How much time can you spend out of the classroom providing basic phonic teaching instruction to your student per day/week/placement? and more importantly who is looking after the class while you are giving your student that instruction?

Free? Not a lot, but I do make sure I co-plan with my student, find time to feedback and support her after school, include her in meetings and training, including co-delivering some training on phonics to parents and generally make her feel included. They're all things I'd be doing anyway and I find it a lot easier having a student there to be honest. Two brains and all that. I don't expect her to be fully formed - she had only had three weeks at uni before she came to us, so the way I see it, it's my job to make sure she's getting what she needs. We might need to employ her one day! I don't mind at all.