Is expected progress between KS1 and KS2 the same for SEN and non SEN kids?

[KOKOagainandagain]

Maybe any teachers (ellen?) could help.

I have become aware that the head and BOG are working with different expectations. Non SEN dc are expected to make progress of 2 levels or 6 sub-levels or 12 APS. SEN kids are only expected to make 10 APS, 5 sub-levels or 1.2 levels progress between KS1 and KS2.

Is this backed up by official docs? I thought expected progress related to all dc. Expectation of failure by SEN kids??? Also may be the case that teaching resources are being diverted from SEN kids who are not going to make level 4 (eg 1:1) to run 'nurture' groups for borderline level 4 non SEN kids to improve SATs scores. Is this different treatment as a result of SEN discrimination?

DS's old school has 100% of children on the SEN register not only failing to make level 4 but also 100% failure of adequate progress. Yet ofsted said in 2011 that SEN kids make similar progress.

Does anyone know where I can find some stats?

Yes, SEN children are expected to make 6 sub-levels in KS2.

Schools' provision maps need to identify potential barriers to this rate of progress and show clearly what the school is doing to meet the child's needs and ensure the progress.

Surely it depends on the SEN?

Some children will not make that progress with full one to one support. Others may hit it or exceed it. Same as with nt children.

I also posted this message on the SN children board and lougle pasted a link to DoE SEN attainment and progress 2012 report and stats. 'Here is a link to the "DfE: Children with Special Educational Needs: An Analysis - 2012". It gives progression statistics for 2010/11 in Key Stage 2 and Key Stage 4.' www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/STR/d001092/index.shtml

Attainment varies but expectation of progress is the same ie 2 levels.

Yes, the expectation is the same. If the progress is not made the school needs to be clear about why and to be able to demostrate they've done everything they could with regards to the SEN Code of Practice to secure the best progress possible.

We are expected to make MORE progress with SEN children than with those without SEN (otherwise we will not be aiming to close the gap between the two.) Clearly there are some children for whom this might be impossible, but the expectation is certainly there

I have struggled with this as a parent of dc with sen and a teacher. I have used these arguments about expected progress successfully at tribunal but this was in the case of no progress not the expected two levels progress that schools measure themselves with. I think it comes down to whether you think your dc are making progress. Dd who has asd and is in mainstream is making slow progress but I honestly don't see what else the school can do to make her progress further and faster. She is doing well in some areas and less well in others. I am happy with the provision and therefore I don't really buy the view that she must make a set amount of sub levels per year. Ds who is in specialist school probably doesn't make a set amount of sub levels progress but is making so much progress socially emotionally and in life skills. This is what is important so I don't care what his levels say. I guess what I am saying is that the levels are a red herring. If your dc are making progress and you think your dc has the right provision then chasing this is a waste of energy. If you are not happy with provision and think there is something else that will make a difference then levels can be helpful to your argument.

Some of the children I work with have complex needs and significant language delay. How are they supposed to make "better than expected" progress.

It's all very well having high expectations for pupils (which I do)but it needs to be realistic.

And some of the significant progress SEN pupils make at school can not be quantifiable by a bloody QCA test!

It's Gove and his chums you need to be ranting at not schools I doubt they have ever met a child with complex SEN.

Aspiration and high expectation is of course a good thing but not the misguided idea that one measure (levels) can be sophisticated enough or even vaguely suitable to capture all 'progress'.

'Progress' is a complex issue.

In my case DS1 was 2b, 2a and 3c at KS1. Development of school phobia led to a transfer in Dec year 4. KS2 scores were level 3 across the board. 0% of children that achieve maths level 3 in Year 2 achieve Level 3 in Year 6. Meet DS1. Head has argued that KS1 results were 'insecure' and has therefore arbitrarily reduced scores to 2b, 2b and 2a. He has also arbitrarily decided that the expected level of progress for SEN kids is 5 rather than 6 sublevels. DS1 still hasn't made expected progress after all of this but at least it is closer. wtf what chance do we have when events can be spinned in this way (and swallowed by the BOG)