Refusing to put dc on next reading level or even assess

[Blueschool]

Dc in in year 2. Has been on same reading level since September.

My dc may not be good at a lot at school, but reading is dc strong point. Not the top of class but quite advanced. Not just my opinion but her previous teachers and helpers.

Her current level is not a challenge anymore. Mentioned this weeks ago. Given a huge list basically telling me why dc is a crap reader in teachers opinion. Very surprised as one area always was praised on reading.

Took it on chin and we worked hard to resolve the issues like "not enough expression".

Dc reading is just fine. I can not find not fault.

My comment I wrote last week was the "book was not a challenge". Teacher took a whole page up in dd reading record to again tell me how crap dc is.

I felt the comments were utterly unfair and do not reflect reality at all. She also told me I could buy books to read at home! Very unfair assumption dc reads for pleasure all the time and has 100+ at home.

She said IF she wants she will assess her after Christmas she will.

My issues are

• I thought parents and teachers were meant to be in partnership with education. How is this a partnership?

• IF dc is genuinely reading badly at school WHY? Why is there such a difference? Why is her educational environment not making her feel confident and supported to show her real abilty?

• Another parent has told me they have had similar issues as the teacher gets herself stressed. Im sorry, but holding a child back because you are stressed is quite something.

What should I do?

I'm not surprised children don't read for pleasure if both school and their parents obsess about reading comprehension at the expense of enjoyment. It does kill enjoyment if you are asked hundreds of irritating questions - get your dh to do it to you while you're next reading a book. Well, I find it deeply annoying in any case. 'Why do you think he said that?' Oh, sod off! I'm trying to lose myself in a world of imagination, silly me, that's what books used to be for.

My point about exposing children to a range of novels was really aimed at the op. Why reproduce the classroom at home when you could be having much more fun reading something more interesting?

I like Rosen's arguments, he is very persuasive in lectures. I have seen rooms full of primary school teachers applaud him. His is not a lone voice.

Well, I find it deeply annoying in any case. 'Why do you think he said that?' Oh, sod off! I'm trying to lose myself in a world of imagination, silly me, that's what books used to be for.

Me too! I would be tempted to give them the book and say -you read it and make up your own mind!

I was a book worm from about 6 yrs-I had a wonderful thing-a library ticket-a free range and didn't have a parent breathing down my neck only letting me have the right level.

"I'm not surprised children don't read for pleasure if both school and their parents obsess about reading comprehension at the expense of enjoyment. It does kill enjoyment if you are asked hundreds of irritating questions."

I agree that it is really important that most reading be done by children for enjoyment. Asking/expecting children to answer written questions on every single bleeding boring book they are given to read at school is a sure fire way to make sure they get turned off. And it's a very poor excuse for teaching to hand children a book to read and a booklet of questions to answer

This is the best analogy I can think of with regards to the angst about reading levels at school. Imagine a system where your HV assesed your child for walking ability every so often rating it from 1 to 20 where 1 meant cruising and 20 meant running. Imagine how pointless it would be to get stressed if your HV assesed your child as an 8 and you thought she was a 9. What difference would it make in day to day stuff. When at the park would you chide your child for running 'No Lily, you may not run around having fun as you are a level 8 so you must walk to the slide.'

See, the real reading is what goes on outside of school, books at home, signs, cereal boxes and so on. The school stuff is for assessment and spotting chldren who may need additional needs. It's healthier to adopt this sort of attitude to reading, that it's like walking, it's not a 'school' thing.

But is the point now in most state schools.

That reading has become

a tick box exercise with loads of admin

Eg

reading divided into 3areas

decoding-if child can decode well parent thinks yay they can read
comprehension-Im not joking here last teacher gave us list of 7questions to ask child after each book.I mean at the lower levels she was only reading a 16page book with very simple non complex storyline not war and peace!
fluency-reading with attitude, no gaps, in their headm with expression, suing different voices and confident.

Then lets look at how readings handles

initailly the child is assessed and placed on level teacher feels is appropriate

The child then gets read to by

parent helper-reading volunteer or ta
teacher-maybe not quite so frequently she does have a class of 30 and so little time!
parents-oh god lets go into the home school partnership contract that school sets out when you join that you will ensure all reading and other homework is supported.

They have 1 to one reading groups
guided reading groups
phonics groups
handwriting groups

Most schools have a reading diary-old teacher hated me writing in it and said if I had issue should come to see her but with 2small kids I dident always have time to go see her when copuld just write a note and when we did engage she would become defenesive and belittle me.

I guess its asumed parents read at home-many dont.
I try to read nightly with dd unless shes very tired.

But a child can become stuck unless they can prove comprehension understanding which is a lengthy drawn out process as it was in our case new teacher said comprehensions fine its fluency is it no wonder parents are confused?

Is it no wonder kids are bored

when they on lower levels than they able to do
that the storyline is boring
That they then answering 7+questions after each book.

I know they have to be make sure no steps missed and no child falls through cracks- I have a 14year old stepson whos readings worse than my 6year old!

But in majority of cases think we holding lots of kids back as we too scared -we lowered our expectations and everythings slowed down.

This is frustrating for parents who want to support childs education.
We tried to work issue out before moving but couldent sadly.

I like rosen think he talks such sense.

As a kid in 80s i cant really remember reading scheme books
remmber dad teaching me to read in infants
remember by junior that I could read despite being behind in maths.

I remember at juniors reading flat stanley, roald dahl as class book in year 3.I must ask mum as cant remember any reading books or even bookbags back then and libary was full of interting stuff.

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread but I will say I understand completely how you are feeling, but, that doesn't mean I think you are right in feeling that way (if that makes sense?)

I had pretty much the same issue with my son in Year 1. The books he was bringing home felt ridiculous compared to what he was reading at home. I got myself riled about it, asked for assesments and got annoyed each time the book came home and he hadn't been moved up. I gave up, treated the reading book as what it was, a single piece of at home practice and carried on with the reading anything else he wanted. Finding a way to not give a shit about reading level (within reason) is SO freeing and my experince was the less pushy I was with teacher, the more she was inclined to pursue assesment and move him up.

When he moved up to Year 2 he jumped 4 book levels with the new teacher so I do feel a bit vindicated that he was moving too slowly in Year 1 but the important thing is that it has had no long term impact and I am now in a happy place where I don't feel the need to stress and get uptight about reading levels. Seriously, it's not worth it : )

I do remember english comprension in juniors but was diffrent was nothing to do with reading books.

It was worksheets or exercise books with short story or few paragraphs then a list of questions about that story remember doing this year 5/6.

Im wondering if all juniors were free readers. I dont recall any issues im having with dd and we read t home, go local libary, bedtime stories.

I keep asking myself last few months why she behind so many in her class? whats she not demonstrating, how can i help and got nothing back in return-think they make reading far moer complex than it needs to be.

I think people are commentating on lots of different things here.I don't ask questions about the books my dc's are reading.I would rather they enjoy them.I am not obsessing about book levels i am merely trying to get books that my dc will enjoy [at the moment he is utterly bored and unstimulated with his school books].I was a real bookworm as a child.I loved Enid Blyton[which was totally politically incorrect at that time].I read War and Peace at age 11.I didn't understand it all but did enjoy the book nontheless.I had read all the classics by 10.I absolutely loved reading.I want dc to be the same.I also want him to conform [which he doesn't always do].Hence i am trying to keep the school happy as well.
I am a volunteer parent helper as this teacher will ask the parents for help.Lots of parents don't read with their children here sadly.I have no training apart from having learnt basic phonics teaching my 4 to read.I do try and make them sound out difficult words phonetically.Its sometimes difficult on occasion when i have been given children with learning difficulties and not been told about them before hand.I have found this really hard because i don't know how to get through to them.
Finally i think some of you have a point.Very few children read for fun these days.I wonder whether this is due to the latest way of teaching children to read,sapping all the enjoyment out of it.

Just to clarify, when I say don't worry about reading levels - obviously do concern yourself with how well she is reading, just don't rely on reading level for that.

"Listening to a child read is not the same as teaching a child to read."

Isn't it how this country made its vast advance in literacy, and how most under development countries make that vast rapid advance from illiteracy to literacy? People who can read, showing the letters to other people who can't read, and then listening and correcting, and working on harder and harder texts. Adults, teachers, older children, brothers, sisters, tutors, friends, grandparents. How do you think it happened? Jolly Phonic computer programmes suddenly made their appearance at dame schools?

It suits some people (and some teachers) to make out it's a big mystery but it's not at all.

"Five minutes reading to an adult in school is pretty much a wasted excercise"

I couldn't disagree more.

I like what you say Mam and I agree with most of it. I must admit I find your style really, really difficult to read though. But I think you make excellent points.

For people who dont feel the correct reading level is important, maybe consider how the CHILD feels.

It does not do your confidence any good to realise you have stagnated on the same level despite working well while seeing your peers move up. Think about what type of message the child is getting here. The child is not oblivious just because the are young. They will pick up on this and as will become dispirited.

As a parent it also makes me lose faith in the teachers ability to properly assess or support my child.

The problem is with "experts" and possibly some teachers is that they seem to have forgotten a lot of common sense stuff. Like - answering a lot of questions about a book is boring. Like - staring into the middle distance doesn't mean I don't know, it means I'm bored. Like - anyone who can read can listen to a child read and help. Like - different people listening to a child read can be a bonus because a non-reader might click with one of them. Like - reading with someone who's neither the teacher or the parent can take away some of the stressiness. Like, talking about how words are put together but sound different or the same despite the way they're put together, or talking about how sentences are structured or phrased are built, can be just as interesting as trying to imagine how some drippy kid felt when they closed the playpark.

Excatly blueschool. They've forgotten that children like to "progress", go onto the next stage, look ahead to the next stage, get excited about going from red to blue, all that stuff. They love it. Lots of teachers don't want them to love it because visible progression means visible success and they don't like that. They just seem to forget that children love that sort of thing.

Isn't that why ORT went off a bit. All that climbing through the levels was seen as far too oppressive, as well as the whole look and say thing.

Thanks brycie.

I can honestly say its not until you outside looking in or looking back that I can see it more clearly and calmly now.

When I was in it I couldent.

I was very greatful for posters who reasured my worries some teachers themselves.

I think looking back some of my worries were valid and came from others.

dd was infact many reading levels lower and reading below her nc reading age given in year 1.

Dds class were competative which then meant dd being upset never she would never catch up.

The restructed reading of so many pages per nights.

The few other very competative parents in dds year who obsessed and talked about it a lot-one of them a close freind.

low level bullying dd got over her reading-just catty remarks

I dident understand what the problem was and the teacher could not commicate adequatly what it was and how to fix it other than asking 20questions and going at snails pace.

I also think anomolys exist when theres more than one class and 1teacher as the younger ones from r1 last year all came up to class 2 on higher reading levels, was paranoid dd middle of year average be left behind as she passed phonics, wasent a 1c or low level reader some were on ort 2/3 at start of year 2.

Maybe its just me maybe im a loon.

but seeing dd so upset in tears
saying shes no good at reading.
The extra stuff reading and other stuff we did at hone making no diffrence its like hard work wasent rearded we were still on ginn5.

what helped was summer hols gained some clairity.
reading here.
speaking to mums at otehr schools who did things diffrently and was more relaxed.
moving-sad have to go that extreme but whenever i tried to covey ho dd felt i was labelled as pushy parent, they no best and like I was being competative. I said nothing last year so have tried the opposite approach.

went up old school yesterday to pick dd up and first think people discussed were levels and I thourght im so glad im off this merrygoround.

I also feel more postive fluency isue more than comprehension as think this be easiest and quicker to work on quite simply we just read more often and more variety simples.

I live in hope im much mire grounded to cope with younger 2siblinsg.
Did think maybe it as school or teacher but others in same school were having same issues and reading posts of here other schools do too.

Mam - when I was a reader in school there were children who were on lower levels with no apparent reason for it, seemed very fluent, it was as they were victims of a "bad name" thing. It was very simple to restore their motivation. Take them for an extra fifteen minutes, read through most of the simple books on their level, then give them two or three books for home including the first book from the next level.

It lifted their confidence and interest, put a smile on their face, relieved the parent, restored normality. It was as if a record got stuck but there wasn't really a problem, all you had to do was jump the record. It's not that complicated.

For me I was child led nor process led.

I worked with dd
listened to dd
observed dd.

I wasent trying to eb an overcompetative pain in the arse pushy parent telling teacher what to do was not my intention.

everyone child and parent likes to see progression thats normal.
stagantion is hard for everyone

Child led not process led - well QUITE!

Exactly Brycie. To this day I despise sports as I was never supported, told how appalling I was and made to feel a failure. These things stay with you well into adulthood.

My dc is not an all around golden child. She is not Mary in the nativity, her art is not adorning the school foyer. She is always in last place in the race.

But reading is her "thing". She draws a lot of confidence from this. She is genuinely a good reader and, yes , getting on gold level does mean something to her as reading as her passion.

The bottom line is there is no justification to been stuck on the same level this long.6 months! Its not exactly "galloping".

This is not about keeping up with the Joneses. The few children who reading level Im aware of are lower levels anyway.

This about my dd confidence and happiness and what is fair.

Apologies if I got this wrong, have tried but may have failed to read thread carefully enough.

OP says that teacher detailed several times how crap the child's reading skills were. Could OP please copy down here 5 or 6 (or more) of those recent comments?

I must admit in your case, OP, I would go to public library for reading materials. They have tonnes of early readers ime.

I got quite paranoid and thourght why is she held back?
even teacher said level 3 too low but yet couldent read extra books or extra pages so when dd said wil i catch up when im on 5 they will have moved up to 8 I was thinking how can I close the gap.

I heard freind dd read and she was no diffrent to dd yet was on much higher level?

I think the teacher is probably making a mistake here. If the daughter and the mother want so desperately to move onto Gold books why not let them? If the child needs to work on her comprehension, reading with expression, summarising plot details, imagining alternative stories and so on, then she can just as well do this with a Gold book.

I think the teacher is making a mistake by alienating a parent (and possibly a child too,) by making such a big issue about something as small as one reading level.

OP, I think if this happened to me I'd just buy some of the books that my child wanted to read, read them with her and write about those in the reading diary and ignore the lower ones that the school was sending home. I'd also speak to the teacher and the head teacher too if necessary. It would be much simpler and more harmonious if the teacher got off her high horse and just gave you the books you're asking for. But in the end you have to be prepared to supply the books yourself.