Refusing to put dc on next reading level or even assess

[Blueschool]

Dc in in year 2. Has been on same reading level since September.

My dc may not be good at a lot at school, but reading is dc strong point. Not the top of class but quite advanced. Not just my opinion but her previous teachers and helpers.

Her current level is not a challenge anymore. Mentioned this weeks ago. Given a huge list basically telling me why dc is a crap reader in teachers opinion. Very surprised as one area always was praised on reading.

Took it on chin and we worked hard to resolve the issues like "not enough expression".

Dc reading is just fine. I can not find not fault.

My comment I wrote last week was the "book was not a challenge". Teacher took a whole page up in dd reading record to again tell me how crap dc is.

I felt the comments were utterly unfair and do not reflect reality at all. She also told me I could buy books to read at home! Very unfair assumption dc reads for pleasure all the time and has 100+ at home.

She said IF she wants she will assess her after Christmas she will.

My issues are

• I thought parents and teachers were meant to be in partnership with education. How is this a partnership?

• IF dc is genuinely reading badly at school WHY? Why is there such a difference? Why is her educational environment not making her feel confident and supported to show her real abilty?

• Another parent has told me they have had similar issues as the teacher gets herself stressed. Im sorry, but holding a child back because you are stressed is quite something.

What should I do?

OK, brycie. But the mum has a huge role to play in making sure her daughter doesn't get demotivated. Life in general is a series of ups and downs. But the trick is not to give up when things don't go your way. Adapt. This kind of thing is part of the reason why I want my daughters to go to school in the first place. Most people need to learn how to get on in society, how to react when someone in authority says no. This is not going to be the last time that the OP's daughter comes across this.

I think that headinhands had a good post, yesterday morning.
A library ticket and free choice is the best thing you can do for your DC, and for them to see you and their father read for pleasure.

The mum is the only one doing it learnand say. In fact the suggestion you made early on in the thread is the best one so far. Just bump up a level and test comprehension there. That's a very simple solution.

Relying so heavily on parents also leaves behind children with unwilling or badly educated or uninterested parents, and creates extra difficulty for ESL children. If you rely on parents, you get even more uneven outcomes than you otherwise would. I don't think this is socially fair.

Yellowsubmarine: if you think the problem is solved by the parent offering a wider range of books to read then yes, you think a child's motivation by the teacher and the classroom environment doesn't matter.

I also believe that a child reading well and comprehending well at home, but doing badly at school, is a sign of poor motivation and something going wrong in the classroom environment - this is a problem the teacher could help to resolve herself and in class.

Brycie, I think that's absolutely right, children with mums who can't speak or read English, children whose mums are drug addicts, children who don't have mums or can't live with the one that they do have (the list goes on) are at a disadvantage, a terrible disadvantage. But don't we all already know that?

Yes - but the school should not reinforce it. It is the job of a comprehensive education system to even out those disadvantages as much as possible.

There's a limit to what the school can do about it. simpson was saying that she has been reading with some Y2 pupils who've been struggling on ORT phase 2 books. My daughter is finding ORT phase 2 books too easy. How is any school going to fix that? Some, I've heard, try to level the children so that they're all at the same level which would involve holding my daughter back until the poor readers caught up with her. (But if anybody tried that I'd just take my daughter to the library.) If the school closed the library I'd go to the bookshop and if the school closed the bookshop I'd write her new books myself. There's no way the school could even out the disadvantages. The school would have to separate me and my daughter.

Yes - there is a limit, and I am not suggesting removing advantages. I am talking about limiting disadvantages, not relatively but absolutely. And if schools are going to leave so much to parents then they should listen to the parents when they have something to say on the issue and not take umbrage.

Mam29 has made some good points. All that I want for my child is for him to be correctly assessed. At the moment guided reading is not the best method for him. I am sure he gets a lot out of taking part, hearing what other children have to say and learning from them. In time, I am sure his confidence will grow enough for him to take an active role in the sessions. However, for him at the moment it is not enough for him to be assessed purely on this method alone, (which is what is happening). He is no where near confident enough to read aloud in front of his peers and answer questions to the same level that he would if reading alone with an adult. I would also add that its not just reading but numeracy as well where he does not like answering questions during group activities. With numeracy though it is easier because he demonstartes through his written work that he understands the concepts and I am not so worried about this. But with reading its almost as if he is being penalised for his personality. He takes after me in many ways, I am shy and quiet have never been a social butterfly but it never stopped me academically or in my chosen career as it was just accepted that this is who I am. But then I went to school in the 70s and I remember reading with the class teacher individually a couple of times a week as well as with the lady who worked in the library when we went to change our books.

I would also say that its interesting that universities and business leaders always seem to comment on the lack of basic skills of young people. Doesnt it make you wonder why this might be. Any one see junior apprentice last week, when no one knew what a candlelabrum was. Not one of them could even hazard a guess that it might have something to do with candles. They went round and round in circles and not one of them thought to find the nearest library and go and look it up in a dictionary. Makes you wonder doesnt it.

Imagine school A: desirable, full of the children of well-educated, professional parents. Everyone wants to go there rather than school B, a poorly performing school full of the children of more disadvantaged families. When teachers and school administrators don't value one on one reading, they would not think, for example, that it might be a good idea for school A to link up with school B and put out an appeal for parents of school A to help with a one to one reading rota for the children of school B. I think this does happen in some areas but if one to one reading is not valued, as is the current fad, then it won't. When this sort of thing is sneeringly referred to as Johny's lonely granny from up the road, it's very depressing indeed.

I'm pretty sure you meant not absolutely but relatively. I know what you're talking about. Put simply you're talking about fairness. And I think most teachers would probably agree with you. Mrz was even explaining how she spends her own money on books for some of her children. That's going pretty far down your road of equality, wouldn't you say? But mrz can't afford to buy books for all of the underprivileged children in the UK. And even if all of the teachers in the UK spent all of their remaining disposable income on books for underprivileged children it would still come nowhere close the the volume of books being bought by ordinary parents. And what could all the kindest teachers do about SEN, ESL etc, etc? I think a lot of schools really do try to do exactly what you're suggesting and I think a lot of teachers really do have your belief in fairness at heart. But in the end life just isn't fair. That's the problem. And ultimately whether you're reading Purple band or Gold band books makes no difference to that.

No, and mrz shouldn't have to, I agree. There are some teachers who give the impression of being quietly but determinedly tremendously impressive. Mrz is not the only one on the thread. Yes I'm talking about fairness

"I would also say that its interesting that universities and business leaders always seem to comment on the lack of basic skills of young people. "

yes, yes.

Brycie, whilst you are most free to express your own thoughts and opinions, I'd really rather that you didn't put words into my mouth or make such ridiculous generalisations on my behalf, thanks.

My point is

point 1

op teacher blueschool has disagreed on ops childs reading level and will look again after xmas.

well thats least 6weeks away.
imagine how much progress/reading a child can do in 3weeks.

My question is blueschool needs to ask teacher on what this opnion is based.

does her dd have one to on reading with ta
when was last time teacher heard her read?
bare in mind they went back september we nearly december
Does she soley rely on guided reading?
if so is she prepapred this week to spend 10-15mins hearing blueschools dd read to check its not a shyness and setting issue and if there is a diffrence? I dont think thats an unreasonable request.

point 2
if just guided and dds child /school has high proportion of kids whos parents dont read to them 1 to one? hows their reading levels?
below national avarage? It all of course depends on the school and its demographics. But somewhere along the line already disadvantaged children are widening the gap because the kids whos parents do read, their kids have progressed faster.

we lucky here we have good libary provision but is still a long walk or bus trip so dont go as often as I would like.

Libaries dont do banded book schemes

A lot here say oh join reading chest I did look.

its £10 month cheapest package going up to £15 a month so £120 a year or £180! Hows a deprived parent supposed to afford that?

Old school only had ancient ginn 360 and ort.
Not mcub selection and just 1books a week.
Thankfully new one has online bug club books and about 5different schemes.

yes theres buying books new.
I buy lots 2nd hand.

but about ensuring child gets variety at appropriate level for them can be tricky and expensive.

point 3

being judgy.

I can see how there are reasons why some parents dont well.

language barriers
poor readers themselves-one really deprived area here was on tv and adult iliteracy was high.
single parenst with other kids and lots of other homework set its fitting it all in.

as for reading helpers -yes some will have the wrong motives ie parents who want to see what others are on..

But the granny over the road- shes just trying to help think a wide range people generations as well as males can be good role models.

point 4-much is made about home school comtracts parent must support the school, must do homework, must read and follow instructions as told.Yet when a parent querys it after reading nightly with child its dismissed as they cant be trusted, they rong, they dont know whata they on about or they being pushy.

If blueschools read every day with her child.
teachers read once or not all with child.
I be inclined to think parent could be right here.

I used to resent having to go in and say.
I feel teachers should be monitoring and on top of it.

Yes,i had to stop reading this thread yesterday when i read the patronising and downright nasty post about parent helpers.My childrens school have some lovely grannys and grandpas coming in to read with the kids.They are wonderful especially with the little children and have a whole wealth of experience that the children appreciate.However i'm sure their views are quite different to current 'fashionable' educational practice.I am a parent helper.i do it to help the school and teacher out.Most pupils also love to have individual attention.Little girls/boys love to be praised and told how good they are and how they have improved.Little girls are always really proud when they move up a level and literally glow with happiness[most boys don't care as much].I am just, if not more engaged with these children than with my own.I have sat in on one guided read-it was incredibly boring and dull.It is not the same as one to one reading however many teachers i hear arguing for it.Educational standards are not improving in this country they are falling [whatever educational research shows-usually an improvement?].
Well done Brycie for consistently pushing for common sense against the educational 'experts' brainwashed by the latest teaching methods.

There are many merits to reading individually with children, but, as I have said before, I cannot see any evidence from anyone, that this is better used for teaching reading skills in school than guided reading. Of course, children can learn to read with individual reading sessions, but the fact remains it is far more time consuming for teachers to do so, and I would not want to leave the teaching of reading to parent helpers. Practicing reading to a parent or grandparent is acceptable, especially for children who don't practice at home. I would rather see a teacher spend an hour and a half teaching guided reading and have remaining time to spend on focused teaching in other areas (or additional reading) than see her spend 5 hours doing individual reading sessions.
In my experience children love guided reading as they are with a small group of their friends and this often gives them more confidence, and the session often involves talking with a partner, discussing with the group etc. Contrary to the opinion of some on here, my experience is that most children are more likely to feel shy in the one to one situation with an adult than they are when with their friends.
For those parents who are against guided reading, where IS the evidence that shows better progress with 5/10 minutes individual time a week with the teacher?
Guided reading aside, there is no substitute for sharing books from an early age at home with a parent in my opinion. Children who come to school at 5 years old with limited experience of books and stories and without an already developed love and interest in them will always struggle, as this experience cannot be replaced by schools. The most able readers are always those that have a rich experience outside school and whose parents encourage, foster and model reading. So, brycie I would keep reading with your child, and don't forget to keep reading to her as well, as listening to stories which are just beyond her own reading ability will help her with those comprehension skills.

Isabelle nothing against guided but I think there should be room for both.

Luckily my dc are able readers yet pretty much from year 1 we've had no input re what they're reading or how.I think kids need advice and time spent on what they're actually reading at home and how to improve(however able) on an individual level with individual targets.Talk on genres they like,what to try next and questions on what they've actually read over a period of time.

Surely the goal is to ensure kids become lifelong readers as the more kids read the better they do across the board.

You can't do the above in a guided reading session.

Yellowsubmarine: your attitude of "problem solved" by asking the parent to do more reading around clearly indicates that the idea of motivation within the classroom had not occurred to you. You too are free to say that it's important the teacher realises that motivation within the classroom envronment is crucial, and that he or she can contribute to that.

Isabelle: your attitude to parent helpers has been clear for a while.

You know what yellowsubmarine I should have said this:

"But yellow your reply indicates you don't think there's any role for the teacher to motivate the child etc etc. I think there is. "

instead of becoming snarky. Then you would have had a chance to say, well no I think xyz.

Isabelleringing - You havent met my son then. He is painfully shy around his peers but will read to any adult one to one. I have an older dd now year 4, she is confident and outgoing a completely different personality to my son. She takes after her dad. Guided reading is and always has been fine for her because she is very confident in her ability around her peers. No surprise then that she is already a level 4c in reading writing and numeracy. I have not done anything different with her at home other than nightly reading during the week and homework. If anything, I would say that my ds shows the potential to me that he could actually do better than his sister.

I think all parents want is for children to be treated as individuals and an acknowledgment from teachers that if one method of teaching is not working then to try something else. Afterall, out of my sons class of 30, I can think of about 4 other children who share his lack of enthusiasm for guided reading and it wouldnt hurt to take those children away from it from time to time to try other methods with them. This is what happened last year in year 1 with my ds anyway and he came on in leaps and bounds.

Brycie, I think that teachers have a role in motivating children.

There. Happy now?

Can you not see that I was playing devils advocate with my 'attitude' to parent helpers?

I was trying to make you see that we should not be relying on them to teach reading in schools.

With all these painfully shy children around it is a wonder we have classes at all!

Why don't we teach everything one to one?