Still on Stage1 ORT

[Fluffymonster]

Dd1 is 5yo and in Yr1. So far this term all the reading books she has brought home have been Stage 1 ORT or equivalent - simple sentences of 3-4 words, 1 sentence per page, entire book has 5 or so pages.

I think she's utterly bored and in danger of becoming disengaged. Even in Reception, dd was at least on Stage 1+, so she seems to be going backwards! At home she can read simple 'ladybird' fairytales.

I've been wondering whether to say anything for the last couple of weeks as it's still the first term, and the teacher is new, so I thought I'd see what happens. However, each week it's been one Stage 1 book after another, even after I mentioned in the comments book that it seemed a bit easy.

So in mulling it over today, I've looked at a couple of threads to try and figure out what is an 'average' ORT level for a 5yo - and to my dismay, discover it appears to be around the Stage 4 mark, give or take! Therefore I've just realised she appears to be languishing behind, and am annoyed with myself for only just picking up on it.

Her end of year school report last year, was very good, it said she's a quick learner, could recall all reception high frequency words, and already progressed to some Yr1 high frequency words, and had the potential to become an excellent reader. From what I gather she also goes into a juniors class for her phonics group. She loves stories and I think she is interested in learning to read and is a good learner - I have not been told of any problems with her reading up til now.

I was wondering if it's really unusual for a 5yo to be still on Stage 1 after a year of Reception, and how to address it with the teacher without coming over as too PFB.

Oh for heaven's sake - the new book in her bag today is Stage1+!!! Dd has just read it straight through and put it away.

Iwillorderthefood - yes scroll 7 and 10 posts up.

I feel like I'm knocking my head on a brick wall.

tgger I was going to say thank you so much for the reassurance about how quickly it is possible to progress once things click.

Actually I do remember the HT telling me before dd started, at the Parents' Meeting that the pupils usually start off below average - but by the time they leave, the results are above average, especially for English and Maths. The school has an Outstanding status. I thought it was because the school caters for a very mixed cultural population and there are a lot of pupils from non-English speaking backgrounds. I didn't think she meant that most pupils are actually discouraged from progressing at the start.

So dd can read all she likes but it won't be recognised until the school is ready? That's how I'm beginning to feel.

And guess what - there is another inspection due and they've handed out surveys for pupils/parents. Not great timing as up until this year it would have been glowing (dd seems happy there and I'd thought and been told how great she is doing). Now I'm not so sure.

I actually want to answer very positively because I had believed it's a lovely, caring, as well as academically decent school. The teachers seem nice.

Not sure I'm being listened to atm - am I being fobbed off?

I could be jumping the gun. Only had meeting yesterday, and they have just been told the inspectors are coming so no doubt they're a bit preoccupied with that - maybe the teacher forgot to check dd was coming home with a Stage2 book as we discussed.

Oh dear, how annoying.

Feel for you, I think I would march in with guns blazing tomorrow to return the book and get the Stage 2, although of course my guns would transform into a polite "I think there was a mistake, can we have the Stage 2 as discussed." Then I would definitely get on the Oxford Owl see what she can do and get your own books at the right level from there.

Good luck!

Who did your DD read with??

If it was the TA then maybe she has not been told that your DD has been moved up a level and has just told her to change her book iyswim....

Just managed to catch the teacher at hometime (funnily enough she was just heading back inside and I had to call out her name - ho hum).

Did exactly as you mentioned tgger, a polite "I think there was a mistake..."

Nope it wasn't a mistake - the book is Stage1+ which is in the Red band. Therefore she has moved up a level.

What am I moaning about then eh.

So that's that then?

OK Oxford Owl here we come. I've also been to the library and downloaded all the Yr 1 and 2 'high frequency' words to practise at home. We'll do flashcards, play reading games, Pick a Word from the Hat etc.

Surely they can't justifiably stop her progressing if it's obvious she's reading all of Yr1/2 high frequency words??

Reading the Y1/2 HFW is a pretty empty skill and wouldn't influence reading levels.

So what would you suggest?

She needs to demonstrate that she has the skills and knowledge to decode a wide range of words she encounters rather than rely on HFW she has memorised.

Sorry I don't mean to sound obtuse, but how can she demonstrate the skills and knowledge to decode a wide range of words she encounters - if she is consistently only being given books that don't have a wide range of words?

So if I'm doing it myself, I may as well use the HFW for Yr1/2 as a guide.

I will still read to her and get her to read the Oxford Owl books with me.

Other than by being able to show that she can read the HFW words, say what they mean, and use them in context in a sentence, I am not sure what else is considered demonstrable skills and knowledge.

learnandsay Crikey, I've just noticed your thread (bit slow on the uptake) and your OP sounds quite similar to the issues I've been talking about here (except dd is in yr1, so a year down the line!)

Maybe I should just read your thread.

She should be having daily literacy lessons part of which will include phonics where children will demonstrate that they can blend and segment words. They will also be expected to show they can use use these skills independently in reading and writing.
I would not move a child up a level even if they knew all 300 HFWs I'm afraid.

But Fluffy, do you put much store by these ORT phonics readers? I don't. As long as my daughter can read I don't really care what they do with the readers. We just read them as fast as possible and move onto proper books.

"It must be difficult to match ORT phonics readers with children because the phonics readers aren't proper book"

two examples of text from 100% phonic books (approx Y1 level)

Just then there was a sound. A little spaceship was in the garden. A purple thing with tentacles shuffled out of the spaceship.
"Who are you?" asked Ella.
"The Purple Muncher," said the thing.

Dinosaurs reigned a long time ago. We know this because their fossils are found all over the Earth. We can't know for sure how many kinds of dinosaur there were. So far scientists have found around 300!
(illustrations are labelled - Oviraptor, Stegosaurus, Brachiosaurus and Apatosaurus

Oh well, if that's in stage one readers we've got nothing to worry about. Problem solved.

I'm worried

Me again. Throwing some cold water over pps.

OP I completely understand your problem. I have been there. How can a child demonstrate that they can read a harder level book if they are not given said book to have a try at? When they can read an x level book in their sleep is it not commonsense to the teacher (and parent) to try the next level and see how they cope? It's not rocket science is it? It seems that this does not happen though.

If OP's teacher said to her "well, OP, I tried your DD on Stage 2", but she struggled, so let's stick to Stage 1+ for now, then I should think OP would listen and say "Ok teacher". But it seems this didn't happen. OP is left thinking, "for gawd's sake, DD can read much more difficult texts than this, this is what children have when they first start and DD is better than this now, so why is the school not even trying her on them, especially as I have been in specially to draw their attention to the fact I think she can do this".

learnandsay there are good and bad phonics readers as there are good and bad reading scheme books. I found them really good for DS to know his phonics was sound, and actually I preferred staying on these to keep his confidence high, until his reading was that one step further to cope well with "normal" books.

Tgger well that's how I would check that a child was on the right level ...X is reading this well so lets read a few pages of this level and see how they cope ...

It seems that the teacher is working on book band levels - pink being level 1 & red being level 2 and the OP is looking at the ORT stages which puts both in the 1+ stage. In theory red is the next level but not helpful to the OP.

I think you need to ask the teacher to read with your child and assess the book level he should be on. Explain 1+ is too easy

mrz - she does have daily literacy lessons part of which includes phonics at school, but I have no way of telling how she is getting on, apart from what the teacher tells me, which is "really well." As far as I can see, she blends and segments words, and uses these skills in reading and writing.

I'm loving the Oxford Owl site btw!

Just got her to sit with me and try out one of the books - she chose 'Painting the Loft' which is ORT Stage4/Red band and read it to me sounding out the words.

I had to stop her guessing one of the words (on 'loft', she said 'floor' - so I had to stop her and remind her to look at the first couple of letters). Otherwise she can read it through and follow the story - though she did have to ask me what 'loft' and 'steep' meant.

Given what her teacher told me about benchmarking, where it has to be completely independently, then yes, I can understand that under assessment that would mean she wouldn't be considered to be at that level yet.

But I can see she is close, and it's just a case of increasing her confidence, widening her vocabulary, and more practice.

pink and red are both very basic though aren't they, and I think OP is saying her DD is reading better than this now.

You'd think after a parent had come in to query the reading level and talk about it the teacher would assess the child. You'd think...... I'm not sure there is always time though and teachers seem to ere on the side of caution rather than ambition if they haven't had time to make sure (my experience).

Glad you check the kids' levels like that mrz, I am not going completely bonkers .

Ah glad you have tried out the site, it is a fab resource. And perhaps it has cleared it up for you, re your DD's level. Just read every day and she will improve, enjoy!

My apologies I missed your earlier post where you mentioned "benchmarking"! It's starting to make sense. Well a little.

Benchmarking is a method of assessing children to match to book bands in the PM books produced by Nelson Thornes

A tip for the oxford owl, put it on phonics readers to start with (sorry learnandsay). Just some of those ORT early ones have silly words in.

X-post

tgger You understand where I'm coming from completely!

Actually - learnandsay, I do see what you mean in that other books may be more interesting and fun reads. But tbh after a year of Stage1, and Stage1+, then back to Stage1 at the start of this year, and now back to Stage1+ again, Stage 4 seems absolutely riveting and exciting in comparison. I will be sooo happy for her to read them!

We can still 'get on' and read other books of course, but atm I'm just banging my head about why can't she actually be allowed to move up a Stage without it seeming as though I'm being an incredibly pushy mother.

I'm not asking her to be acknowledged as a child prodigy or anything, I'm just trying to follow an NC level guideline, and concerned that she's being 'forced' to fall behind. Yes I can make sure I work with her at home etc. but why is she on Stage1+ at school. That's all.

try the ones on MN too www.mumsnet.com/learning/ebooks

Don't worry, it's not just you. DS is on Stage 11 at school, this is not a stealth boast, I promise, he's older than your DD, but he can read pretty much anything (and understand it etc). It seems the school have no desire for him to read anything harder.

I don't mind- the Stage 11s are interesting/hard enough, and we have other more challenging books at home. I had a go a chat with his teacher to see if she could assess where his level is and could he have some books where there is more than one word (in 30 pages) that he has to stop and sound out/ask about, but so far no change.