Ok, I know I sound pushy but why do they still need to do all the phonic stuff when they can clearly read?

[AudreyCox]

DD is in reception. SHe has always been a precocious reader and could read basic reception type stuff at 3. So at that point I did all the jolly phonics stuff with her with she took to like a duck to water. So by the time she went to nursery last year she was reading and they supported her in that. Now in reception she is having letter sheets home with all those sounds we did 2yrs go. She is spending whatever literacy time they do in yR doing phonics but she knows all this. The teacher has assessed her and admitted her reading in around y2 level but her comprehension around y1 level. It is probably true that she reads better than she understands but clearly she understands better than basic letter sounds. Her teacher has basically just said that they all need to work through the programme then they can move on.

So I'm asking if ths is usual. Is it not the standard thing to spend the first few weeks assessing and then progress each child from where they stand?

p.s. She does know some of the aids - e.g. y at the end of words, when to use ck etc., but it's how to go about teaching it that I'm interested in.

But mrz I think we're talking mainly here about cases where the parent is defining the child as a 'free reader' or equivalent, not the school. And I'm not sure I entirely understand your point - do you mean that they would only be able to read the school books because they've learnt them off by heart? It doesn't sound like that's the case with the OP's child (nor with mine).

Ok, firstly, I did not say my dd was a free reader. Other posters have said that about their own children. I said dd was a precocious reader meaning she read early and fluently. She could not read and certainly not understand adult text but she can read stuff like Horrid Henry books and she managed The Twits. To be clear, as I stated earlier, her comprehension, whilst very good, is not at the same level as her reading ability. I imagine this is common.

As to the poster who asked what I expect the teacher to do, well I guess I expect them to assess each child and teach them at their level. Isn't that reasonable? I absolutely do not expect to be made to feel that it's a pain that dd is such a fluent reader and that she just has to follow the 'programme' like everyone else. If the teacher started teaching all the children to dd's level wouldn't some feel aggrieved that the teaching was ridiculously difficult for their child? Surely it's the same?

Oh and to clarify, there is a two group split for phonics. One group moving at a slightly faster pace than the other.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, no reading books until after Christmas apparently to ensure they are ready!

I think the school should be able to differentiate appropriately even in YrR - my DDs' school certainly did.

However, phonics will not and should not go away. My DDs are now 9 and 11, both working 2-3 years ahead of their ages in terms of reading and writing, but they still apply their phonic knowledge to their work in situations where they need to spell a word they have read and understood but not written themselves before. Their phonics knowledge allows them to understand how the word is structured, which guides them towards the correct spelling.

They also use phonics to allow them to read words which are completely new to them - so that they can either infer meaning from the text, or ask what the word means and how it is used. Without the phonics knowledge, they would find it more difficult to ask the right question.

Today I used phonics to correctly pronounce a complicated surname belonging to someone I had not spoken to on the telephone before. The person I was speaking to really appreciated having her name pronounced correctly by a complete stranger. I am 44 and have a postgraduate degree

Sorry OP, I didn't mean to put the 'free reader' phrase in your mouth . I don't really know what it means anyway. I think we're talking about the same thing - maybe fluent reader is a more neutral term! From everything you've said, it's the school's attitude that would worry me, rather than what they're doing or not doing at this stage (given that it's still very early days). When I spoke to DS's class teacher about how he learnt to read, I said something off-hand like 'we couldn't hold him back, really'. She looked quite aghast and said 'why on earth would you have wanted to?' By contrast, when we looked around a nearby school, the Reception teacher said she wanted the children to be able to hold their pen correctly and nothing else, please, as she wanted to have a clean slate with all of them. It was not hard to choose which one to apply to . If the school is genuinely irritated by your daughter being able to read (rather than just a throwaway comment), then I would be quite cross and a bit concerned.

No LapinDeBois I mean the term "free reader" gives the parents the idea their child is a much more able reader than is usually the case. The idea that a nursery child knows everything they need to know about reading is misleading and I'm speaking as the mother of a hyperlexic son.

I would ask for a meeting with the teacher to clarify exactly what your daughter is doing at school, and I don't think it is unreasonable to want her to bring home appropriate books for her reading level. But they might be planning to do that soon anyway, if she's in the faster group?

In my son's school they start bringing books home as soon as they know 19 sounds whether that's in nursery (where they learn a sound a week over the spring and summer terms) or reception. (Where they quickly do the letters and sounds programme from the beginning of Autumn) So they all start at very different times. So in his reception class there is a big difference in ability...Children who didn't attend the nursery, the ones who did the nursery programme and are bringing home beginner books, and the ones who either had parents teaching them, or have learnt naturally.

They set for phonics within the infant school,but at the moment this is just within the class. (I think, from interrogating my son) So my son who is currently reading ORT Level 3 is in the same group as his best friend who has nearly finished level 1. I'm guessing they will set within the year group/school more accurately at a later point. They are still doing some of the letters and sounds programme and jolly phonics as a class because he's always singing the songs. They do letters as part of their music and movement class as well. He reads well, but his writing is nowhere near the same level, and probably not his comprehension either so I think going over the earlier phonics will do him some good. But he's bringing home books that are appropriate to his level...your daughter is not.

What you describe is completely normal in our school and in fact my son (the book worm) also arrived at reception many years ago with great reading skills and we just had to sit though the usual reception level phonics. I completely understand why they do it though - they need to make sure that everyone has the same solid base to build upon. They will over time start to offer her more of what she needs when the children start to be grouped in ability. You will probably find she is one of a handful of children who are already readers. What you need to do is to continue reading with your DD and keep her interested.

I agree with bluesky, I think. Your dd will continue to improve in reading as you read with her at home. She'll also learn plenty in school. Reading, writing and spelling have always come very easier to my dd, and we just regard her school reading books as part of her reading experiences.

She quite liked all the phonics - i remember her coming home saying 'you may know the letter name and sound, mummy, but you don't know the action' .

You haven't said whether your dd is happy, sad or indifferent to doing phonics.

And actually phonics is taught for only a short amount of time each day - so does it really matter that your DD is going over it again. Reception is mostly about play. There are plus points about her sitting there whilst the teachers recap things - she will feel able and more confident to answer questions correctly, she will enjoy the group session with it's dynamics etc

I think I'm more anxious because of how the teacher reacted when she discovered dd could a so well.
-yes, she is in the faster group.
-yes, she seems fairly happy at school and the worksheets she gets home are useful in helping with her handwriting.
-I really believe she should be getting reading books home from school and crucially, being heard read in class.
-I want her gaps plugged rather than her doing single letter sounds to ensure the whole class are up to speed. Is that unreasonable?

Well it seems they will give out the reading books after Christmas and that's fairly normal in YR, happened with DS so you'll have to wait until then for books, and at this point she will be heard.

And no, they probably won't plug her gaps if her gaps are well ahead of her peers. I guess you and she will probably do this if you carry on reading. DS was getting ahead of the class last year with reading and I wanted to make sure he had the phonics knowledge so I did it myself- bought the RWI booklets that do the phonics systematically and went through them.

He is going over many of these sounds again now in Y1 but he seems to positively enjoy the phonics sessions, despite knowing the sounds and reading them for quite some while.

I think you are being a bit unreasonable, actually. Probably, your daughter is the only child in the class who can read at a level that is any practical use, or perhaps there might be one other. There are 29 or 28 other children in the class, some of whom have had until recently no idea what a letter is and haven't been read a book in their whole lives.

Your daughter is happy at school and is enjoying herself. Plus, presumably she is learning stuff other than how to read.

I imagine that you read things that are appropriate to her reading level at home with her? So she is getting practice in reading and encountering more vocab etc.

What exactly are school meant to do? I don't see how the best use of limited resources (both time and money) would be to make a huge accommodation for the one child who can already read and get her reading better. Is it not more sensible to bring some of the other children up to a level where they can also access resources that require a child to have some reading ability independently?

I speak, btw, as the mother of a child who is a fairly long way in advance of the rest of her class with reading. She's fine. They are totally doing phonics and ai and ay and a-e and whatever but it really doesn't matter. She comes home and reads me complicated poems and Roald Dahl for my bedtime story.

If your daughter can read, she won't forget how, just because she's not reading much at school at the moment. Just get her loads of good books to read at home. And if you can't buy them, use the library or Oxford Owl.

Are you sure she's not being heard reading in class, in addition to the phonics? DS has done a fair bit one on one with the teacher or TA, and today he told me that he read a story book to the teacher and one of the other children. So it may be that she's been doing stuff already.

To some extent I agree with others that there's a limit to how much time they can devote to one child, but I do think its reasonable to expect the teacher to at least find out and understand what level OP's DD is at, even if they can't always cater specifically. And it sounds as if the OP is not sure they've done that.

I wouldn't describe you as being unreasonable to want your daughter's obvious gift to be nurtured but I'm not sure how a teacher would be able to do this effectively when I imagine your dd is very much in the minority.

Reading your description of your dd's ability is quite astonishing; my daughter could recite The Gruffalo (from memory) but she would be totally unable to actually read it. If you compare this level against what you're describing, the poor teacher would struggle to bridge the gap I imagine, no matter how hard he/she tries.

Like lot's of other posters have said, providing your daugter is engaged and enjoying school, I wouldn't be overly concerned. Afterall, I would imagine the teacher is still so busy remembering all of their names at this early stage that they aren't even focussed on streaming yet.

Personally I don't think they need to have READING rammed down their throats.nif you're enthusiastic about it, and they enjoy it, let them be.

Both of mine read early and well, and aside from teaching them the basics and providing squill ions of books, I leave them to it.

Umm sorry to break this to you, but even after Christmas your child may only be heard read in class by the teacher occasionally. Compared to my day when we seemed to read to the class teacher almost daily, the teacher's usually rely much more on reading to the parents and comments in the reading journal.

I would suggest you use this time to do more reading with your child, go to the library a lot, but also work on comprehension. What has happened? How did X feel? What do you think will happen next? (And do they get the jokes?)

It sounds as if her gaps are being plugged, as you put it, if the worksheets that she is getting home are helping with her handwriting.

If her reading is so far ahead of her handwriting/spelling/maths possibly, then it's not here reading that you need the school be focusing on imvho.

Books home will come as will being heard read in the classroom. My sense is that you're jumping the gun a bit, but I can understand that.

I think both those expectations are quite reasonable. Although it is possible she is being heard read in class as teacher has assessed both her reading level and her comprehension level. How is teaching a child new things ramming it down their throats? Else any child learning phonics for the first time in school would have to be described in the same way?
But I think it is also reasonable if your child is still learning to form letters correctly that she does that too, whether you call it regoing over phonics she already knows, or call it starting to learn handwriting is the issue.

Yes, I do agree that the phonics sheets are useful for her handwriting. I also agree that school is about more than just reading especially in reception. I think, as I said earlier, it was/is the attitude of her teacher that is worrying me. As if it's inconvenient and annoying that dd can read so well and she's basically telling me it's tough because she had to start with everyone else. I guess it's just made me feel uneasy about the whole thing. I'm sure I would be fine if she'd said something like, that's marvellous that dd can read and we'll certainly be building on that ad the year goes on bug right now we need to concentrate on this and dd will benefit from the handwriting stuff. Or something similar.
I know I'm coming across as pushy but I'm not. Maybe a little naive about time and resources etc but I do understand that. Thanks for all the input. It has certainly helped me think things through.

I have afeeling (teachers shoot me down ) that there is a requirement in the literacy hour for all children to do a whole class lesson in literacy before they split up into groups????
That would explain the whole class on the carpet thing.

Someone up thread was asking about reading books as dc didn't like Horrid Henry etc

Have you found Animal Ark? It is a whole series, and there is a junior version called Little Animal Ark. About same reading level as Horrid Henry, very nice animal and vet based stories

No, there's no requirement - the Literacy hour was shelved years and years ago.

DS was the same as your DD and they assesed the phonics level he was at (so made sure there were no gaps) and he just skipped all the basic phonics stuff at school. They did other stuff with him during phonics lessons as it would have been a waste of his time.

He joined Y1/2 guided reading lessons instead as he was assessed as starting on phonics level 5 (not sure what that means) and beginning of Y2 reading books.

If the school are good at differenciating then they shouldn't be giving her stuff she can already do unless they are not quite sure of how sound her phonic knowledge is. There are many children that can read really well but cannot read using phonics which shows up in the Y1 phonics check.

Also, at both my childrens different infant schools all the children get their reading books at different times. DS and 1 other had their books at their assessed levels within the first few weeks and others as late as the spring term.

I don't understand how they can possibly treat a whole class the same!