can a child be good at phonics but still struggle to read?

[3duracellbunnies]

Dd2 has just gone into yr1, her teachers have said that she is very good at phonics. They stream them by ability throughout the infant school and at the end of reception yr she was in a mainly yr1 group with some yr2. Despite this she still hasn't clicked with reading. She is reading around a level 4/5 on songbirds - we have some at home(they have colours but can't remember which colour), but finds the whole process challenging and will only read for about 8 mins and even that requires bribery (I say that if she reads 4 mins that is how long I read to her, if she reads for 10mins I read for 10mins - she loves being read to). She still seems to struggle to decode words, especially any words of 7 or more letters. Any tips/ advice.

She actually sounds to me like she's doing perfect for a year one, im not sure where the problem is in that post to be honest, that amount of reading time sounds like the right amount for that age.

Songbirds stage 4 are red books (blue book band) such as Moan, Moan, Moan and Spike Says. Stage5 are yellow books (green book band) such The Cinderella Play and Usman's Books. Either way they are good levels for a child at the end of reception year.
Your description sounds appropriate for a child her age.

It's not the time so much as the time to read each page, so in 8 minutes she will read about 4 pages, so about 30 seconds per word, and each word is agonising, even when she read that word 2 words before. I know that she is doing well compared to some others, but it is the process we go to to read each word, compared to the feedback and perspective of the teachers which I am trying to understand. Dd1 was at a similar reading stage, and is now reading well, but hers was a more global issue, whereas dd2 seems to get phonics and can write fairly well and seems to be ahead of most of her peers on phonics, but behind them on reading stage (based on her report they number the phonics stages and she is ahead of children who are on level 7/8 reading books). She is the child in the class who sees it as her business to find out who is doing what, dd1 was always oblivious to these differences. I just want to help her understand why she finds it tough as she is getting frustrated.

Yes we read Moan, Moan, Moan, each one sounded out and slowly blended together, despite having only just read the previous word, with much protesting and 'can't do it' and thumb sucking between each word.

Sorry to raise the possibility, but thus sounds to me more like a co-operation/compliance issue than necessarily a reading one. Does she wriggle and delay to try to get out of other things?

Moan, Moan, Moan introduces the alternative ways to write the sound /oa/ (phase 5 if the school is following letters & sounds) which means she is doing very well because the expectation is that these will be taught in Y1.

Yes she does try to manipulate us, but then she is 5, it is part of the job description! One minute she will be dreaming about going up levels, and she seems quite competative in that respect, saying she wants to read two or three times a day, but then when she actually does it it all falls apart. I guess that is why I asked the original question whether someone can be good at phonics but still find it hard to read. I don't want to be too hard on her if she is genuinely having problems, but I don't want to be manipulated either.

At the moment I give her two warnings for 'messing' about and on the third occassion I stop her reading, the timer stops. I then read for that time, if she reads a lot then she gets a few books, if she has messed around a lot then I will stop when the timer goes even if I haven't finished and she has to wait until the next day to finish it. She seems a bit better with this strategy, but I don't know if I am being too harsh because she genuinely can't read it, or too soft and should just give her 1 or no warnings.

It could be these books contain ways of writing the sounds that she isn't familiar with yet.

That's helpful Mrz according to dd1, dd2 was on level 3 of 5 phonics stages at the end of reception (they all line up behind their numbers), they are doing read write inc. Stage 5 seems to extend into some of year 3. They seem to then further divide them into smaller groups, hers was mainly yr1 and 2. They haven't split them yet in yr1.

I wondered whether maybe the children ahead of her were speeding ahead based on learning by sight, but that as she is good at phonics her progress will be more steady. When I don't think she is a little manipulative minx! All I really want is for her to enjoy reading and stop the battles.

Phases 2-4 are intended to be taught in reception phase 5 in Y1 and phase 6 in Y2 (I'm not sure how RWI matches)
I've got to be honest it sounds as if the school are just giving out the next level book regardless of whether the child has been taught what they need to read that level.
It's very unlikely the children who are reading by sight will have memorised all the words they need to read these books fluently.

Your approach seems a bit mean- using a timer and refusing to read to her as punishment!? Perhaps if you relaxed a little then she would too. If she needs to sound out the same word 3 times then let her- it will click eventually.

Thank you Mrs I think it is unlikely that there is an exact concordance - at least with how their school splits it as there seems to be only 5 levels, dd1 is top level reading Dahl, Walliams, etc, though her spelling is not as good. After level 5 they have finished the levels.

She often seems surprised to learn the sounds eg oa from me, but then she sometimes pretends she doesn't know other things, when she definitely does. Will keep going with the reading and see which book level she emerges with when the teacher has assessed them in a few weeks. Will try not to be too hard on her!

I don't punish her for reading the same word 3 times, in that book she has to read it 3 times, what I don't like is when she sucks her thumb stares at the ceiling and says 'do I haaaaaavvvveee to read?' when she is in the middle of reading, and then won't look at the book. I would rather cut short the reading session than persist when she gets into that mood.

She generally manages 4 minutes which is a Mr Man book, and usually more, she loves a challenge and this is the first thing she wants to know is did she read longer than last time. Generally they just have one book read to them at night (except ds who is still on little books), so this way she often gets two, and it focuses her mind. When she had no reward she would hardly read at all. I know that in a few years time reading itself will be the reward, but at the moment she is still finding it hard work (and I usually read a bit faster if time is running out). They have begged dh to adopt the same approach so I don't think they see it as a hardship!

Our daughters are the same!
Mine insists on telling me the story from the pictures and not the words. Which I discourage and tell her the story is better if she reads it

Fidget wiggle play with her socks/toes/knickers/buttons and admire the whole room decor rather than look at the book.
I can see your timer method working in this house too!

But when I threatened no more Barbie on YouTube whatsoever, the beautiful reading she produced was astounding.

I really think they are having us on! She is certainly reading way above school books.... When it suits her. Sadly for me (or is that or DD) her teacher last year didn't believe me.