11+ - to do or not to do?

[suecy]

DS has just started Y5. He was a 4a across the board at the end of Y4, so is bright but not nasa scientist material! Need to start extra work soon for the optional 11+ in our area which he would take next autumn.

I'm a bit torn really - the high school which is the expected alternative is seen as being a good one, and I'm fairly sure he'd be high up if not top there in terms of streaming in all subjects.

The grammar is also very good - there is stiff competition to get in but his teacher thinks he should have a go if he wants to - which i interpret as 'he's not guarenteed but he may stand a chance'.

If he fails then that's absolutely fine, if he passes with a brilliant score then that's absolutely fine. My fear is he may get in with one of the lower pass marks and will then be in the lower streams at grammar. I'm just worried that this will be worse for him than being in the upper streams at high school.

He's confident in his primary, where he is used to being top of the class for everything, so I have no real experience of how he'll react to not being so. Would it be character building or soul destroying?!

Aargh! Any experiences to share?! I know each child is different and you don't know him but any thoughts welcome! He is keen to do it, as it's seen as being the thing that bright kids in our school do, but has little real understanding as to what it means!

The 'super selective' grammars around here say that you need to be expecting 'good 5s' at the end of year 6 to be bright enough for the schools.

Your son is well on track for those kinds of results and he wants to do the exams. I'd let him do it.

If he wants to give it a go, then why not?
As long as he knows it doesn't mean he's a failure if he doesn't get in. Nothing to lose by having a go!

If he's a genuine 4a in year 4 then there is absolutely no way he will be in the bottom sets/struggling at a grammar school (unless it's super, super selective - top 1% or something - and even then it's unlikely - or unless he absolutely has no progression between now and year 7 - again unlikely!)

At our 'normal' grammar school at entry into year 7 about half the dcs are solid level 5s across the board and about half top level 4s. There is the occasional truly level 6 child and the odd child who's a level 3 in one area and happened to do well in the test.

Equally, if your local comp/high school alternative is good there's no reason not to consider it for him, either. Lots of bright dcs actively choose not to do grammar as they don't like single sex (if the grammar is)/ prefer the extra-curricular options at the alternative/prefer the facilities/the journey/prefer to go where their friends are going, etc etc.

But the caveat you will get from most people is that if it's a NVR/VR type test he will need to practise for it as it nothing like curriculum stuff and if it's English/Maths etc, again he might encounter stuff he's not yet studied at school so will still need to practise (especially on speed).

DS1 was 4b in Reading and Maths at the end of Year 4, lower in writing. Since 4b is the 'average' for the end of Year 6 we felt he ought to sit the 11+. He passed last year with the maximum standardized score in each paper, so got in easily. He has also loved his first two weeks at Grammar, no problems with the work so far, and appears to be flourishing.

So I would say go for it! DS2 was 4a in reading and maths at the end of year 4, so we are also starting to look at the work with him a bit no for next September. Remember some teachers have strong ideological objections to the 11+, which may account for his teachers reaction when you spoke to him/her! However, as a parent you have to do the best for your child in the area you live in - if it is a full Grammar system, that is what you have to work with.

He shouldn't be in low sets at grammar with those marks - if he would be happy to go to grammar then he should apply - he'd probably thrive.

It's v dull for kids to be constantly top of their class - my dd loves having other bright people to compete against at grammar.

Hi suecy

I so hear you. This grammar school system and entrance exams are the pits. My socialist DH of course would prefer everyone to go to state schools, but having seen our local situation and now heard many a horror story even he is encouraging DD1 to sit the 11+ next September.

My feelings are this:

1. You shouldn't force your child.
2. It should be his/ her choice (having discussed the advantages of going to Grammar school)
3. Practice should fall to them (sure mark the papers, help decide what to work on today, provide pencils/ snack/ drink, but you shouldn't be endlessly chasing them to do a practice paper).
4. I personally take the view that this is additional learning (which in our case glaringly isn't happening at school - as in I have had to explain what a verb, preposition, abstract noun, etc... was). I also take the view that regardless of outcome this extra work is no bad thing.
5. At any point DC doesn't want to do this, that's fine.
6. Even if DC passes (1 out of 100 chance (1%) in our grammar schools' catchment) she will have the choice to go or not.

It sounds like your DS is very bright and enjoys a challenge. So I'd use the 11+ practice as an opportunity to stretch/ challenge him at home. The decision whether to attend can wait for the results of the exam next year, when he's a bit older and you've seen the schools and had some time to dwell on what you'd like as a parent and he's had some time to dwell on what he wants.

HTH

Our grammar schools over here in Gloucestershire are VERY selective - you have to consider not just how well they will pass the test, but also which subjects they are GOOD at and which ones you want them to study and take GCSE etc for -

they guard their league table places like wolves - my goodness - only the top 40% of the combined science class got a chance to take the GCSE in Chemistry - others were "guided" away from it - towards softer subjects...

So yes -they have a 100% A/B record in GCSE chemistry - but only because they put forward the top 40% of the top 1% of applicants to the school.....

Great post,PastSellByDate.

It is very important it's your dc's choice, not forced on them by you and that they are therefore motivated to do any work required and happy to go - very sorry for dcs forced to do loads of preparation for a school they don't even want to go to.

Also totally agree that any time spent doing additional work with bright dcs outside school istime well spent,no matter whether they get into said school - it's not until you have that 1-1 time that you realise how many things your bright dc was getting away with not doing/knowing in a class of 30! They will probably be bored and may be arrogant if top of the class at school - learning extra stuff stuff they don't know can be a great experience for them and a bonding experience for both of you.

Thanks for all your input. I totally agree it has to be his choice - in no way do I want to force something on him, and certainly don't want to live with a child who feels that way!!!!! Obviously we'll visit both schools with him and understand his likes/dislikes about them.

I have no hang up about him getting in or not, I just want him to be happy, and learn in the best environment for him.

Obviously his attitude towards the extra work he will do this year will be a good indicator as to how well he will adapt.