Opinions please!

[Northumberlandlass]

DS (just turned 9) has moved into Y4, he is part of a 'spirited' class..I am not blind to DS's faults - he is easily led, but on the whole hates to be told off so that keeps him in line. He is also (by agreement with school) sat away from his two best buddy's in class & his work/concentration has improved.

Yesterday during assembly, 3 boys were mucking about & talking - they were warned repeatedly & eventually told that because of their behaviour the whole class would lose all playtime's today.

The teacher then went around the class asking other children what they thought of this and how they felt.

I chatted to DS and his friend last night about it and I asked why did they think the teacher had done this, DS friend said "so we all hate [ insert 3 boys names ]" and I explained about peer pressure and how she is hoping that as a class you will realise that your actions will impact on all of you etc.

DH isn't happy at all and doesn't think this is a fair punishment.

I completely understand that she is trying to put her foot down early in the year - DS keeps telling me, that as Y4 (oldest in school) they have a responsibility to be mature & well behaved.

What are your views? I am actually not particuarly bothered by it - although DS is (in his words) "extremely angry".

Do your school's carry out this kind of thing? Do you think it works ?

NL

Hi Northumberlandlass:

We're further south and in a big city (not London) but yes our school handles things much the same.

A field trip last year went badly wrong with a few of the boys really misbehaving. The end result was the entire class was banned from field trips for the remainder of the year.

The boys have been duly punished and were forced to apologise to their entire class.

Their first field trip is next month - we parents remain cautiously hopeful this will go better. Apparently the Deputy Head will be going as well, which definitely sent a message.

I think that it is wholly inappropriate to punish the whole class because of the behaviour issues of a few.

The teacher should tackle the offenders and not punish the innocents.

Totally wrong IMO. It may result in other children no longer caring to stick to the rules as they risk being punished anyway.

I would raise this with the teacher TBH, better to nip this in the bud now.

Thanks for both comments - PastSellByDate Wow ! That is a pretty big punishment. I hope they have a better trip this time.

Dikkertjedap - My DH feels the same as you and wants us to approach the teacher.

I think I will see how this progresses, I don't do the school run so haven't spoken to other parents yet, I'll talk to DH tonight and find out what the craic is in the yard.

I just don't know if it will work, their teacher must of had a hell of a day with all 29 of them stuck in the class room.

NL

Nip what in the bud dikker - the method the teacher uses to discipline the class

That's what she is doing - trying to nip bad behaviour in the bud now. I think this is fairly standard discipline technique tbh. Maybe if the entire class is constantly punished for the behaviour of a few every week you'd have grounds to be annoyed, but I'd leave it for a few weeks tbh.

Group rewards also happen btw, it isn't all punishment (e.g. golden time). I doubt you'd get a thread on MN saying 'My child's class has been given an hours golden time this Friday but my child hasn't made any effort this week - shall I make sure the teacher excludes him/her'?!

I think she is setting firm boundaries and DS has certainly taken note of them.

I am going to leave it and see what happens in the next few weeks.

Thanks

In my view it is a sign of poor teaching.

I think it's an awful idea. I've been teaching for 27 years and had thought that this form of punishment had gone out with the Ark.

Yes, you need to encourage group responsibility, but this is not the way to do it. Children need a break from their work, and to run about and let off steam. I have no sympathy for the teacher if she suffered herself from coping with 30 kids cooped up inside all day, but I do for the kids who lost their playtimes through no fault of their own.

Of course these first few weeks of the year are about establishing routines and high standards of behaviour, but it is perfectly possible to do so without resorting to archaic punishments like this. The 3 misbehaving boys should had had sanctions applied, which should have acted as a deterrent to others, and the rest of the class should have had their break as normal - a further punishment for the boys, who would have had to watch them go and think of what they were missing.

I think you'd be quite within your rights to complain about this - and I don't say this lightly (as a teacher!). Maybe drop a line to the Head or class teacher asking them to explain to you the poor behaviour your ds displayed that has resulted in him losing all his breaks today.

teacher is disciplining the whole class when is is a certain few who have misbehaved. how is that fair??????
awful

Assuming that it was just those three who were badly-behaved, and not that they were the last straw of the whole class niggling.

Thanks Clam - The other children in the class were told that they were being 'punished' for the actions of those 3. They were asked how they felt. DS said that most people said "Disappointed", "Angry", "let down" etc.

I am not going to mention it, we will see what happens next. DS new teacher has kept at least one child in every lunchtime since the start of term (only a week, I know) - however I also know they are a challenging class.

I guess everyone is getting used to new teachers, what is expected of them...

Dreadful!
I agree with your dh.

It isn't fair and it won't actually work in the way she wants it to work.

It's just not good practice. In fact it's bad practice.
I've had my share of challenging classes over the years, particularly recently, yet I've never resorted to this. Doesn't even work. All it does is make the "good" ones resentful as it's so blatantly unfair.

My mum taught in primary schools for over 30 years and she doesn't believe it will work either.

I'm at the school gate tomorrow - will discuss with other parents!

There are a couple 'outspoken' parents in the class, will be amazed if someone hasn't brought this up.

Our of the the three boys, 2 are regularly disciplined for behavioural issues. Do you think this makes a difference to how she handled it?

I am pleased to see that most people consider it bad practice.

I don't think that punishing the whole class for the bad behaviour of a few is standard practice in UK primary schools. It would definitely not be allowed to happen at the school where I work (inner city school with a lot of behavioural issues). Children should feel secure in the knowledge that good behaviour gets rewarded and bad behaviour addressed.

If there are two boys with behavioural issues then the teacher will need to put an action plan in place for these two boys. This can involve extra coaching (anger management etc.), it can involve reward charts, it can involve taking them out of the class for periods of time and having them work with a TA for example. Depending on what exactly the issue is there are lots of strategies. However, to see the results could take a little while, depending on the kids involved.

Really interesting that teachers are writing in and saying this is terrible practice.

The fieldtrip situation was on water, involved risk of life and resulted in the company saying they would never work with the school again.

My understanding was that there were ring leaders - but that pretty much all the children went wild when due to a dare someone jumped off the boat over a significant gap onto solid ground. This resulted in a number of children attempting to do the same as well, with one falling into the water - and meant that the two teachers, a TA and a parent volunteer were desperately trying to regain order whilst the boat was rapidly moving away from the children on shore and in the water.

Although I'm fairly confident my DD1 wasn't directly involved, I'm certain she must have also been shouting during this incident. Many of us felt that the school was right to view this as the class letting down the good name of the school and completely justified in punishing them accordingly.

Out of curiosity, I'd love to know what the correct modern method of handling this might be.

Thanks.

Sellbydate, I think your situation was slightly different. I'm talking about usual classroom practice.

Thanks clam - that's reassuring. I thought the school handled this pretty well, considering.