uk -age child starts school-could we find a better way?

[mam29]

Wondered with so many posts about

advantages being oldest
disadvantages being youngest
scottish system being different so same arguments but different months of the year.
other countries not starting formal schooling until age 6/7
4does seem young and most las have one intake

why do we start so early?

I have a feb child whos middle i guess.
my middle dd is september and just missed a school year.
Another mum today asked me ohh you going to get her into school year early I said its near impossible.

system allows kids to defer but not move forward a year.
dh is 31st august and feels it was harder.
Im july and not sure had any bearing on how I did.

Also in dds class some of the youngest doing better academically than the middle age group in class.

I think people just enjoy the idea that everything on "the Continent" is better

I agree.

@ reddwarf honking.

As an F2 teacher and mum of 3 dcs (dd1 started school last week) i feel really sad when i hear your experiences of UK schools. Mine and DCs school (same) isn't doing too well according to ofsted (below average results) but the dcs are happy, rounded and learning. I really don't recognise the descriptions of teaching i'm hearing so must be in a minority of schools where early years isn't target lead.

Here in the UK we have complete freedom over our DC's education (not somehting that can be said in some of the countries On The Continent )

DC do not have to go to school in reception. DC do not have to attend to school until their parents feel they are ready, if at all.

The law is clear. A parent is responsible for a child's education. How they do that is, within reason, their business.

It seems to me that quite often these discussions come up becasue parents feel their own DC isn't ready, yet instead to taking the responsibilty they wish to change the entire system, that seems on balance to work for most DC.

mumnosGOLDisbest my experience of UK schools sounds like yours.

poopoo i'm sure there are others too :)
Also if you have a younger summer-born child, you are not obliged to send them untill they turn 5. The problem is if you don't take up the place it could be lost, which causes problems in oversubscribed areas.

I think the current " foundation stage" isn't widely understood by parents (I can't claim to be any authority either) I do understand it is learning through directed play though. Formal " sit down sit still and learn or else" stuff is much later on.

I do wonder if " forest schools" and the like should be much more encouraged. DD1 especially might have had better motor skills if she did more outside stuff early on- but she preferred to sit and do desk based stuff .

Agree word I think some parents think they HAVE to send their DC to school. It should be made clearer that this is not the case.

Forest school type stuff is pretty standard in most primary schools these days, surely? Obviously to varying degrees, but I don't think it's rare.

I also get the impression that school in France is way more formal than it is here, and staff:child ratios aren't that great either. Prepared to be corrected on that one btw. I'm going on hearsay.

My children's school is a forest school. Think its becoming much more common.

@Snog: "School costs around £5k per annum. Childcare would be much more. It's an economic decision imo"

Children are in school for around 1000 hours a year, so that's £5 per hour. Can you not get a good CM for that? (If you tell me that you live in an area where CMs charge considerably more, then I should think that your local per capita expenditure on children's schooling is also higher than £5k.)

And a childminder can come closer to providing the hours and flexibility that working parents actually need. A CM won't be telling you that you must send your kids in on days when you don't even need the childcare, or forbidding you from taking them on holiday when it suits you.

I didn't mean to honk

damned iphone.

I think everyones made some valid points.

The system should change as I think due to fact them startiung so young makes the disadvantage of being youngest in year worse maybe as at 4 they should still be in preschool doing short sessions or all day whichevers best for the child.

I think within europe we have longest working hours and worst balance and for the parent state childcare is free .

preschool and nursery are not as the grant only covers 15hours and so many weeks of the year and some not open all year round.

When you read about and see youngsters who not fully pottytrained when they start, sobbing hysterically as they do not want to go in or at hometime when they overtired. and struggle to do basic things some kids do like knives and forks,sitting still for long periods.

I know receptions lot of play but was lots of phonics and reading as even in reception my dd had homework.

I guess preschool would be more expensive hence why we dont get more than 15hours as ratios a lot lower.

Imagine if rations were like that in school how that could really boost a child education.

For kids from troubled families or larger families it may benefit them with more 1 to one and smaller groups.

2 new kids at dds school 1 in year 2 with mine but her brother was canada hadent vent started school and as he was 6 hes gone into year 1 skipping reception

My dd struggled with transition of reception to year 1 was difficult year.
Hoping year 2be better but even more homework , flipping sats and less playtime within class.

having 2 in school/preschool

I can see how nursery/preschool benefeited them.

I can see disadavantages of doing too much too soon.

My 2nd child will be 5 when she starts as shes sept baby so 2more years at preschool-did initially think ahh she be bored but now having seen eldest think its good thing.

My eldest started gym at age 3 she tried couple of other things before she found what she liked.
Then the lady who did gym started cheerleading class which she tried and loved and her name was down for rainbows as they can start when they 5, we dident have time to do swimming classes and prefer to take her ourselves as a family.
Her school do not offer swimming.
no after school clubs or sports for key stage 1 pupils.
no music until juniors.

A lot of people say in real life and on forums that do not extra curricular activities during reception year as child be too tired.

But how sad is that that at such young age school takes over so much time they have no time to do any hobbies they may enjoy.

If I could say keep my youngest 2 home until 6 that be nice.
especially if tehy could stay at preschool go toddler/craft groups, parks, swimming and little classes they enjoy.

Im fortunate to be sahm know thats not option for all.

maybe with need intemediate places something in between a preschool and school as in kidergarten or defer school starts until later giving parents more choice on when they wish child to start and assessing child see if they ready seems more appropriate than arbitry date of birth and age.

Lots would say ohh secondrys more important for future.
Im thinking early years and primary the kep to child then doing well at secondry.

Feel current system just creates lot of stressed unhappy and unconfident kids for no reason.

Im baffled if study said 6 why ignore that?

does the scottish sytem give scots an advantage over the english one.

as just look at fiasco now over remarking exams if welsh , scottish and english treated so differently-some united kingdom there.

The thing here is that everybody is arguing for different one size fits all models. If children could not start school until they were 6 some of them would suffer as a result. The tone of some posts is that children ate forced to learn to read without accepting that there are a proportion of younger children that love books and WANT to know what they mean, have a desire to learn what the symbols represent. My DS1 was about 2 when he started asking about letters and signs and wanted to know what words said in books from about 3. My view was that if he was interested and wantedto learn he should be able to. Reception seems like an extension really of nursery ( I don'tmean this in a bad way) the difference is the leaders are teachers (also a good thing) The set up is very similar to nursery and I haven't seen any children being forced to sit down at desks. Unlike nursery however the teachers are in a position to be able to make an assessment of when children are ready to move on and support them in doing this. Hopefully in a good school this means that the system is responsive to the needs of the child.
Most people on here will be the sort of parent that already does a lit with their kids however there is unfortunately a proportion if parents who don't give their children such opportunities and young children are dumped in front of Ben 10 all day not climbing trees, running around in the rain going to farms and maybe not even going to toddler group.
We need a flexible and responsive education system not one with artificial age based boundaries.

"I generally think kids are best placed to mature and develop those skills, and to an extent their social skills, in an environment that is not focussed on targets, grading and ultimataly ranking them."

I totally agree.

No child (of any age) should be subjected to an environment focused on targets and grading and ranking children.

School is for education, which had nothing, nothing to do with ranking children.

well it does AThing really they are setted, targets set, compared to Government targets.

Well if that's the focus of schools in England, there's your problem.

Fix that and then worry about when children should start school.

If kids were kept in nursery longer, what would happen to the kids who like sitting still and learning though?

Not disagreeing AThing.

I've seen both sides of this arguement - my dc1 started school in the UK at 6 weeks past her 4th birthday . She was able to cope with the learning through play but she was exhausted at the end of a long day for a 4 year old. Despite the assurances on here that YR is play based, my dd still came home everyday with books to read and comments in a homework book about that.

We then moved to Germany and dc2 started school here last year 4 weeks before his 7th birthday. He knew all letters and sounds as he'd done them at home and at kindergarten but he wasnt encouraged at kiga to learn to read. He could read some words in both languages but had no interest in it (despite much effort from me in English "worrying" he was falling behind, "worrying" he must be dyslexic.). 1 year on he can read fluently in German - as can his classmates - and he read out his own school report on the phone to my MIL & is making amazing headway in English. I just think he wasnt ready before.

Dc3 starts school tomorrow - just turned 6 a few weeks ago but if I had been worried about him, I could have easily held him back until he was 7. He would have been the youngest in his year in the UK and definitely was unable to concentrate at 4 but am hoping those 2 years here of just playing at kiga have made a huge difference.