School teaching "sight memorisation" rather than teaching phonics...what to do?

[Greythorne]

We live in France and are a bilingual family (English - French).

DD1 is 5.9 and in Year 1 in a French school. Last year, in what would have been her Reception year had we been in the UK, I taught her to read using phonics. Thanks to lots of advice on here (waves to mrz and others) it worked really well. It seems to me like DD made the two big leaps in learning to read: she has "got" the concept of sounding out sounds (not letter names) then blending them AND she has learnt a lot of the sounds, so she is reading pretty well. Still a long way to go and we have not covered all sounds yet, but we are getting there very surely.

So, in French school, this is the year they start to teach reading. They are supposed to use phonics, according to government guidelines, but I have heard that many teachers are wedded to older methods, esp the sight reading / "méthode globale" / look and say approach.

It is only day 3 and DD has already been given three lists of words to memorise, not read, just memorise. She has memorised them, but as soon as they are in a different context or even a different font, she is struggling, as she has obviously just memorised the shape.

I keep suggesting that she sounds and blends, but she has never been taught the French sounds, only letter names so far. I have avoided teaching her much in French as I am not French and to be honest, I have got enough on my plate teaching her to read in English! I really thought I could rely on the school to teach her to read in French, esp as she already has the concept of reading down pat.

Any advice?

masha

Please, don't feel obliged to c and p your lists every time you post.

I am intrigued by your claim that there are only 50 or so graphemes in French....where are you gettung this info?

maizie - Definition of "phonetic spelling" on Dictionary.com as "A system of spelling in which each letter represents invariably the same spoken sound". As I said to Edith, create another thread if you really think we should continue to bicker on the definitions of linguistic terms. Personally, I think we bored people on this thread quite enough.

Greythorne - I would recommend speaking with the teacher one-on-one, rather than getting up and telling her that her method is rubbish during a réunion de parents. My experience with French schools tells me that you are highly unlikely to get a positive result from the latter.

If you feel that the teacher is unresponsive, you can then get an appointment with the directrice and raise your concerns there, citing the French government's mandate re méthode syllabique.

Hello

I enclose a link about reading methods for different languages to include English and French; you might find it of interest (I posted it a few months ago).

ife.ens-lyon.fr/vst/DA-Veille/31-november-2007_EN.pdf

Good Luck

Y.

"There is a huge difference between learning to read French and learning to read English. English uses 205 letters or letter strings (graphemes) for its 44 sounds, while French makes do with only about 50."

Masha - you are factually incorrect. The number for French is not "about 50", it is 178.

Greythorne -

Starting the first week of CP with an introduction to the "méthode globale" is quite common in France and it does not mean children will not use the "méthode syllabique". One of the reason for doing so is that children ghave already been introduced to phonics during the last year of Maternelle (when they enter CP, they know that words are composed of sounds).

More importantly, the methode syllabique has a terrible drawback in French as many sounds are written in lots of different ways (think c'est-ces-ses-sait-sais-cèdre for instance). If children focus too much on the syllabic approach and do not see words as entities ("s"+"è"), it will be harder for them to get the spelling right. They therefore need to understand that between the phoneme and the spelling there might be a discrepancy from one word to another and that they should not be puzzled by it. This is the whole point of the méthode globale.

Considering this, most teachers use both methods and the government guidelines that have been issued are complete bullshit (during a time when the government wanted to re-vamp the entire primary education) are complete bullshit. Yes, children learn of to read faster, but it breeds bad spellings. This is just going from Charybdis to Scylla.

You can still talk to the teacher about this and tell her you taught your daughter the syllabic method in English. There is no need to go to the Director as he/she does not have any disciplinary power on the teachers and, honestly, the teacher would find it very rude.

Don't worry about your DD if she is not struggling. Maybe a change in the reading methods will also help her distinguish clearly the French and the English and reduce the temptation to pronounce a French word in an English way - and the other way around.

somethign you said about it making no sense to wait until year 3 to teach her how to read english struck a chord, greythorne. it might be worth you looking at how welsh/irish/gaelic medium schools approach this in the UK.

at dd's school, the majority of the children speak english as their mother tongue, so when they go into p1 and it's ALL gaelic, it's a big challenge. we were told, as parents, to hold off from doing English reading with them, as it seems to be the case that they are better to do two years of total immersion in the school language before anything else.

so now dd is in p3 and looking forward to learning English formally, however basically she and all of her pals can and do all read in English as it is. As their fluency in reading in Gaelic advanced, they used what they learned (i'd say while there are some similarities, French is more similar to English than Gaelic, phonics-wise) to teach themselves how to decode the books they loved and are now absolutely raring to go.

so perhaps the best thing is not to teach the two simultaneously after all?

Masha:

Here it says French has 130 graphemes:
ww2.ac-poitiers.fr/ia16-pedagogie/IMG/pdf/graphemes_phonemes_def_liste_frequence.pdf

Aitch
that certainly is interesting.

Just for clarity, I don't think we are teaching both at the same time. DD has had a full year of English reading (now reading level 4 of Songbirds fluently and with pleasure) and is just starting off in French at school. We have not touched French reading at home.

sure, but it's broadly the same time, rather than kept specifically and purposefully apart. it does sound confusing. what about ditching the English work you're doing for the moment, and letting her decode favourite stories in her spare time?

As far as I've heard the French education system relies more heavily on memorizing and learning by rote. And the curriculum is much less creative than in the UK. I'd love to live in France but this puts me off to be honest.

Greythorne - that's a fab table.

I suspect that the difference between your figure (130) and mine (from Stanislas Dehaene's book) of 178 is that mine includes all the silent graphemes.

magdelena

Your post is very reassuring. I know I have to hold fire and at least hear what the teacher says at the meeting. I have been getting very worked up about this whole issue and it's good to hear that starting off with globale and moving to syllabique can work.

Part of my frustration is that schooling in France is such a black box: you deliver you child to the school, you don't get to go inside, you don't get to question their methods, you don't get to volunteer to hear children read, there's little or no creativity or music or team sports, no-one cares about your child's self esteem because conformity is paramount but the supposed upside is that they are rigorous and know their stuff and get on with the task of educating the children. So, when it feels like they're not up to date with the most effective methods and there's no recourse or even dialogue between parents and teachers, it leaves you.....frustrated.

I am sitting on my hands.....for now.

THis thread is getting interesting, particularly in reference to the french/english divide.

I've an interest in bilingualism, for the same reasons as you Greythorne, but no appreciation of the field in terms of reseach. I have read stuff that says it's best to get on and learn to read in both languages as early as possible Here is a summary of research in one brain development lab where they say early bilingual reading ability is registered in the brain like a native in both languages, but like a non-native in the language which is delayed. Though I appreciate the research may be divided - I have no idea really.

I think you should do what you think is right for your DD of course. As Aitch says, she'll probably be reading in English all by herself if you hold off anyway. I personally will probably teach my DS to read in English at the same time as he'll learn to read in French.

I know it can be frustrating especially when you come from a very different system. In France, school is about teachers instructing kids the "savoir-faire" (know-how) while parents educate the children ("savoir-être") at home. There is a clear division of the roles and school is not about parents. The nice aspect is that kids get a "parents-free zone" totally different from home which helps them develop adapting skills to another environment and gradually learn to be independent (for instance by calling the teacher by his/her first name in Maternelle, then "maître"/"maîtresse" in Primary and "Mr./Mrs X" at Collège/Lycée - implying a distance between the child and the adult, which is different from home).
I hope it helps, understanding how systems work reduces the frustration (at least in my case)

MagdalenaAlec - you are right on the theory of the division in responsibilities between home and school in France. Sadly, the quality of instruction is often very poor. The French are fond of the word pédagogie but not so hot on actually training teachers in any!

I agree that "pédagogie" is definitely not the main characteristic of French schools. It has probably something to do with the culture of putting teachers of a pedestal. Re training, the same government that issued the guidelines on using only the "méthode syllabique" also removed the 1 year training/internships students had before becoming teachers...food for thought .

And tbh, I do not know if parents are better "pédadogues"... This concept is just purely theory imo - no one can reach an "ideal" method for teaching children.

The question isn't whether or not parents are better pédagogues than teachers.

The question is whether teachers are pédagogues at all. Some unfortunately aren't.

But surely you would not judge their methods if you do not have a precise idea on how your DC should be taught? I do not, it is not my job and I trust teacher with theirs.

I have strong feelings about how my child should be taught some things, because a combination of research, experience and observation has shown me that some ways are vastly better than others. I don't trust teachers any more than I trust doctors, lawyers or window cleaners, until I have talked to them and observed their practice and results.

Why should we not have a "precise" idea on how our children should be taught?

You would know how to teach your DC Grammar for instance? (I am not talking about teaching a few rules - but the entire subject). I would not and do not have the time to.
but that is perhaps because I could not stand the type of clients who wanted to teach me how to do my job, based on random statutes and cases extracts they had found on the Internet

What if you do have a precise idea (knowledge) on how your child should be taught and the school/teacher are not following that method then what?

Then you should discuss it with the teacher if it is a method that you really know and think it would benefit the class. Which is not most parents' case. And you should also be prepared to discover there is a good reason behind the use of the method you are contesting. Being a parent of one child and being a teacher for a class of 25 is not exactly the same thing.

My kids are taught phonetically in reception but also have about 40 sight words to learn. I think it works well this way. I'm not sure what advice to give but could you ask them about their approach and explain your concerns?