Other than phonics

[morethanpotatoprints]

Does anyone know of another reading scheme than phonics. I am struggling to see how this is working and would like to hear of other options for reading. I know it works for some dcs but was trialed when I was young and I think made my dyslexia worse. Although dd is not diagnosed with dyslexia she seems to struggle a bit and I am looking for alternatives.
I would like help as it is me who is teaching her, and would prefer for people not to argue if possible.

All 3 of my children have gone through the jolly phonics system and it worked great for 2 of them, they were both free readers by the middle of year 1.
My youngest DS has struggled but more because he has ASD and I think is dyslexic but too young to test (was 6 in July)
He can sound all the single letter sounds but the digraphs and cvc sounds he really can not do, or he'll sound out dog and say bog.

Sorry I don't know what other phonics schemes are around so can't help you but just wanted to say jolly phonics was great with my 2 NT children.

So I will also be interested in answers to this too

Thanks JackJack.
My dd is 8 and is very patchy, the best way to describe it. Some things she doesn't get at all and others she is fine with.
I'm not sure how to go about it really as it seems sometimes like she knows words from say y5 but can struggle with words you'd expect at y2.
It seems silly to try and find out what level to start at when it doesn't seem to have worked.

The main reason why some children take quite a while learning to read is because many English spellings are not phonically regular. Their sounds vary, like the in 'man', 'many', 'apron' and 'father'.

The most often used graphemes are the following 80,

• 8 endings, 2 prefixes and doubled consonants: A, a-e, ai, ay (cat; plate, plain, play)
  air/are (hair, care) ar (car); au, -aw, -all (all, sauce, saw, all);
  b (bed); C, ck, k (c/at/ot/ut, comic, crab/ clap; pick, pocket; kept/ kite, seek, risk) Ch, -tch (chat, catch); d (dog);
  E (end); ea/ ee, --y (eat, eel, funny), er/ir/ur (her, bird, turned), F, G, H (fish, garden, house);
  I, i-e, -ie, -igh, -y (ink, bite, tie, high, try); J, -dge, -ge (jug, bridge, oblige); L, M, N, ng (lips, man, nose, ring) 38 O, wa, qua, (pot, want, quarrel), O-e, -o, ol (bone, so; old), Oi, -oy (coin, toy), Oo (food, good),
  Or, -ore, war, quar (order, more, wart, quarter), Ou, -ow (out, now); P, Qu, R (pin, quick, run), S, -ce, -cy (sun, face, emergency);
  Sh, -ti-, -ci- (shop, station, cautious, facial, musician),
  T, -te (tap, delicate), Th (this thing),
  U, u-e, -ue, -ew (up, cube, cue, new) V, -ve, -v- (van, have, river ? no doubling), W, -x, Y- (window, fix, yes); Z, -se (zip, wise), -si-, -su- (vision, treasure)
• 8 endings: doable, fatal, single, ordinary, flatten, presence, present, other and 2 prefixes: decide, invite and the consonant doubling rule (bitter - biter).

69 of the above graphemes have more than one sound.
I can paste them in, if anyone is interested.

Masha Bell

Your child probably struggles with phonics because of an undiagnosed hearing problem.

The NHS doesn't test for auditory discrimination problems, nor for hypercaucus (certain sounds hurting their ears) but this is probably what your child has.

Here's an Auditory Discrimination Test you can do on your child.

You're far better to cure their hearing problems, through any of the many listening therapies, then teach them to read via whole word.

Phonics won't have been 'trialled' when you were learning, because it's been around for hundreds of years and is the traditional way of learning to read. Perhaps you mean the time one particular set of books was rolled out?

Schemes published between roughly 1970 and 2000 are highly unlikely to be using a phonics method, so if you are set on something else, then look for second hand series from that era. I really cannot recommend any though.

Learning to read English is simply not a complete choice between phonics and whole word. And the final aim of all reading instruction is to be able to read all common words by sight instantly, whatever the teaching method.

Children can learn to read the words that contain no tricky letters (that use the main English spelling patterns in the expected way), such as 'mad cat sat' or 'make take', by just learning to decode them and getting faster and faster at it, but they often get stuck on the likes of 'many, said, break'. Some children much longer than others.

Parents make a big difference by helping them to access such words. It's not a matter of ignoring phonics completely, just helping out with the tricky bits.
Children who don't get such help at home, make much slower progress.

Nobody has to take my word for it. Any parent who does not just listend to their children read and help with the words that they get stuck on, but makes a note of the words that make them stumble and then takes a good look at them, will soon be able to see what kinds of words cause difficulties.

It's not a bad idea to go over such words with your child out of context and make him or her aware of why they are tricky. They become less tricky with practice.

I'm not getting involved in a big debate - but you're looking for pointers you could have a look at this

It is not based on learning phonic rules, just visual clues so that children learn to know which sounds go together to make words. They are gradually introduced to the various alternative spellings, but always with the picture sounds to help so they NEVER have to guess or feel stuck. It's expensive, as you pay for the whole course, but you can pay in installments. It has really helped my DD (who is just going into Yr3 now, but really struggled in Yr 1) She started it this March (Yr 2) and has gone from struggling to blend CVC words to now reading words like 'particular' quite happily.

How old is your DD?

Occasionally I take a photocopy of a page of a book she is reading. Then as she is reading I can mark on my sheet which 'difficult' words she reads clearly, which words she sounds out (well) in order to read, and which words she makes mistakes with.

This really helped me to spot some patterns she was making, eg always mistaking 'd' ormissing endings etc. It also helped me to see that sometimes many many words she was actually figuring out / reading well even though it felt to me as though the whole piece she had struggled with IYSWIM.

Thank you all for the suggestions and I will definitely look at hearing problems. She is a bright girl but I know something isn't quite there or right. I am sorry I am not more specific but one problem is memory. You can say it 100 times explain, ask questions, probe think she has it then tomorrow its like it hasn't happened. She is clueless with comprehension, as am I. Handwriting is also not very good, spelling just as bad. I believe all this in linked to why she can't read so well. She loves reading and tries so hard, I read to her a lot too. When she was at school they said she was fine and sometimes above average but I think there are problems and sounds seem to be the common factor. Sorry for the list, I considered having tests done but not sure what we would gain other than a label. If anybody has suggestions what I could do to find the underlying problem and strategies I could use I would be very greatful.

Kasha bell would you mind putting up the rest? Or pm with it you like?

Sorry mashabell

What you are describing is dyslexia.

There is no value in paying hundreds of pounds to get an EP to diagnose her with dyslexia - it won't help.

School are already doing everything they can for her. They've already read dozens of reports from EPs about dyslexic children. There will be nothing in a report about your DD they haven't already read and considered.

These are the underlying problems that cause dyslexia:

• allergies
• neuro inflammation
• neurodevelopment problems
• auditory problems
• vision problems

Unfortunately you're going to have to cure them all. It takes years and lots of money.

Start with dietary changes, supplements and a neurodevelopment therapy. You have to get her brain working first.

'the brain food plan' by Robin Pauc has enough information in it for you to get started with a neurodevelopment therapy.

Supplements you need are Omega 3, zinc, magnesium, vit b6 and b12.

Diets the hardest one. You need to find out what she's reacting to. It's likely to be dairy or wheat but it could be anything.

It's very expensive to get allergy testing done privately, I don't know if you can get proper tests done on the NHS or not.

But I would start by cutting out dairy for 6 weeks and see if that helps or not.

Does she have any bowel problems? Bloating? Excessive wind? Constipation? Diarrhoea? These would all point to food intolerance problems.

Is she spiky? Is she cognitively better some times than others? This would also suggest a food intolerance.

"It is not based on learning phonic rules, just visual clues so that children learn to know which sounds go together to make words",

Um - using visual clues (ie the letters) to learn how sounds make words is the very heart of phonics.

Mumteacher
I am pasting in all the graphemes which have more than one pronunciation, but am putting at the very top the ones that make children stumble the longest, because they have different sounds not just in a few words, like in ?said, plait, plaid?, but in dozens. Although high frequency words with variant sounds (said, any, many) can cause a lot of problems, even though their number is small.

Overall reading progress in English is most impeded by the following 7 phonic inconsistencies. The worst is and all graphemes with . These are the main trouble makers, with some rarer ones further down:

: (on - only, once, won, woman, women
go - to)
: (shout - should, touch, soul, soup)
: (home - come, move)
: (food - good, flood)

: (treat - great, threat, theatre, create
(ear: ear ? early, heart, bear)

surplus endings
which do not lengthen vowels
(have, delicate, engine -
cf. gave, dedicate, divine)

omitted doubled consonants (camel)
which make short vowels look long
(same, camel - cf. hammer)

The remainder are these:

a: and ? apron, any, father
a-e: to deliberate ? a deliberate act
ai: wait ? said, plait
al: always ? algebra
-all: tall - shall
are: care - are
au: autumn - laugh, mauve
-ate: to deliberate - a deliberate act
ay: stays - says

cc: success - soccer
ce: centre - celtic
ch: chop ?chorus, choir, chute
cqu: acquire - lacquer 19

e: end ? English
-e: he - the
-ee: tree - matinee
e-e: even ? seven, fete
ei: veil - ceiling, eider, their, leisure
eigh: weight - height
eo: people - leopard, leotard
ere: here ? there, were
-et: tablet - chalet
eau: beauty ? beau

• ew: few - sew
• ey: they - monkey

ge: gem - get
gi: ginger - girl
gy: gym ? gynaecologist
ho: house - hour
i: wind ? wind down ski hi-fi

• ine: define ?engine, machine

ie: field - friend, sieve imb: limb ? climb ign: signature - sign mn: amnesia - mnemonic

oa : (road - broad)
-oes: toes ? does, shoes
-oll: roll - doll
omb: tombola - bomb, comb, tomb
-ot: despot - depot
ough: bough - rough, through, trough, though
ought: bought - drought
oul: should - shoulder, mould
our: sour - four, journey
ow: how - low

qu: queen ? bouquet
s: sun ? sure
sc: scent - luscious, molusc
-se: rose - dose
ss: possible - possession
th: this - thing
-ture: picture - mature
u: cup ? push
ui: build ? fruit, ruin
wa: was ? wag
wh: what - who
wo: won - woman, women, womb
wor: word ? worn
x: box - xylophone, anxious

• y-: type - typical
• -y: daddy - apply

z: zip ? azure

It's not an impediment.

Phonic teaching includes both homophones and homonyms. Listing examples of these does not alter the principles.

Edith - what Better means is that easyread uses pictures to represent each sound.

ie 'oa' is a picture of a 'goat in a boat'

and the word is printed with pictures above it.

Sometimes the word isn't printed at all - only the pictures.

But it never ever teaches the child that the picture 'goat in a boat' corresponds to the letters 'oa'

Indigo.
Many thanks and I'm sure you are right.
As soon as I had posted I read it back and realised I could have been talking about myself. I was diagnosed a few years ago during teacher training. At school it wasn't recognised let alone diagnosed. I know it runs in families but had tried to think she wasn't the same and when I did look at it she didn't seem too bad. We have spent about an hour on English and Maths today and not got very far. She is no longer in school but nothing to do with dyslexia issues or a school problem. I haven't read much yet but the main problems seem to be processing, sounds, so was thinking auditory. She has the foggy mist thing going on like I used to have. Sometimes I shake my head to come back to reality again. I'm not sure if you are a specialist but thank you again. So many people are afraid to say yes, thats dyslexia and seem to go round the houses making all sorts of other excuses. Can't thank you enough.

I'm not a specialist - I'm just a Mum who's been fighting Dyslexia for the last 6 years - and made huge progress.

Dyslexia is a medical condition and it's totally curable. But it takes years and a lot of different things.

Auditory stuff was where I started with my DD, and it helped a lot.

We did Auditory Integration Training at the Sound Learning Centre. It was very expensive, but really good.

Other options are:

• Johanssaon
• Tomatis method
• Listening program
• Theurepuetic Listening

And there's more - all based on the work of Tomatis.

They vary in price hugely. From £15 per month, to £1 or £2,000 pounds.

If you can afford it I do recommend AIT. It only takes 10 days.....

But I do also really recommend cutting out dairy for 6 weeks to start to work out what's causing the brain fog.

You sound like you are describing my dd. she is 8 and has dyslexia, auditory processing disorder and discalculia. However none of these labels actually help her and the school are not super helpful or to be honest experienced in dealing with them.

So not a very helpful post but you are definitely not alone.

Indigo.

You are truely a life saver. I too believe that dyslexia is curable or at least surmountable. Over the years I found strategies to cope and although left school with nothing managed to go on and do a degree and PGCE. Nobody except my parents helped me and school teachers were bullies to say the least. I know it won't be easy but I'm glad she is at home now. Although I stress this is in no way related to why she left.

^Sometimes the word isn't printed at all - only the pictures.

But it never ever teaches the child that the picture 'goat in a boat' corresponds to the letters 'oa'^

Indigo (much as she is knowledgable in many things!) has not got this quite right.

The "goat in the boat" picture relates to the sound "g". There are (I think only 26 pictures to learn and they learn them pretty quickly. The system is designed to help the child learn how to blend the sounds.

So the "-ow" sound as in snow or in soak or goator in choke is ALWAYS represented by a picture of an oak tree, regardless of how it is spelt.

This means that when the child sees the word broke for example, they will see it like this:
the letter b with a picture of the bear above it
the letter r with a picture of the rabbit above it
the letter o with a pictue of the oak tree above it
the letter k with a picture of the kangaroo above it
the letter e with no picture above it as it doesn't actually make a sound in this word.

This sounds complicated, but it is actually quite a clear way of dealing with the myriad ways of spelling that English has without getting bogged down with rules. The rules are all there and by practicing regularly it becomes a more integrated automatic process. It builds trust and it has certainly helped DDs reading and her spelling.

It takes away any difficulty the child may have in knowing how each part of the word should be sounded out.

eg the letters ea can be said as in 'bread' or as in 'heard'. Even more complicated the word 'read' can be pronounced in 2 different ways. If you are learning to read how do you know which one fits? You and I don't sound out each word we read consciously anymore, we just 'know'. But when you're starting out it seems like you just learn one rule and then along comes another situation where it's a different deal. I know my DD was finding this incredibly frustrating. (she had an EP assessment and has 'specific learning difficulties related to reading and writing')

EasyRead just deals with this so that in 'bread' above the letters 'ea' you have a picture that corresponds to that short e sound (which is an egg with little legs)

In the word 'heard' the same letters 'ea' make an -er sound, so you have that corresponding picture (the earth). This picture is used wherever that sound is heard. So you would see it above the -er in flower or above the -ir in girl or twirl, or above the -ur and the -er in the word 'murder'.

^"It is not based on learning phonic rules, just visual clues so that children learn to know which sounds go together to make words",

Um - using visual clues (ie the letters) to learn how sounds make words is the very heart of phonics.^

Edith. Yes, I realise that. I was trying to explain that while it is based on phonics (small 'p' ; after all, all language is phonic) it isn't booged down with Phonics (capital P ie the system they learn at school)

Usually the standard visual clues (letters) are not a reliable way of sounding out a word as the same letters can have different sounds according to their relationship with other letters, or even just context. This is often dealt with by learning a rather complicated set of 'rules' ie the Level 1-5 stage of 'Phonics' that they learn in school. But in the EasyRead system you don't have to go through all these rules bit by bit. They learn the picture sounds very quickly (4 days) and after that they can use these to read any word at all within the program.

The association between the trustworthy pictures and the corresponding letters is built up gradually and subconsciously over time, through practice. But the child is NEVER in a sitaution where they are confronted with a word and they are not sure how to pronounce it.

The interesting part is how this 'reprogramming' of the way they read does seem to help the whole process become more automatic and fluent in other instances eg, reading books that don't have the pictures there. It takes a while, but this does tie in with other research that has been done in the role of the cerebellum in automated procedures.

More importantly, for me and DD, it has worked in a way that has been relatively fun and painless. She has been happy to do 10 minutes a day on the computer. She would NOT have been happy to sit and go through workbooks that teach the same thing. And yes, we did try Apples and Pears and as far as she was concerned that was just more stuff that she found difficult. With this, she felt in control from Day 1, well Day 4 anyway.

I can see it may not work for everyone, or those with more extreme learning difficulties, but it has been a lifesaver for us. And not that many people know about it. If it even helps one other family, then I'm happy to get it out there!

PS. Why aren't my italics working ???!