Bright son 8 making silly mistakes on v easy things,anybody had this or know how to handle it?

[Prarieflower]

Ds 8 is fairly bright,has always been above age related for everything,taught himself to read before school,photographic memory,learnt all his tables in a couple of weeks,very able at the piano learns music pieces v quickly etc.He's not g&t just all round bright at most things.

I'm kind of worried as he makes silly mistakes with easier stuff eg he'll leave the odd capital off a sir name but put in perfect use of commas,speech marks,spelling etc. In maths he'll fly though something but make one or two really silly mistakes in the odd calculation which he can do instantly when pulled up on.

I feel he's kind of arrogant in his approach iykwim ie he doesn't double check,take his time etc.Sometimes if he's working something out that doesn't come instantly he'll chuck the pencil across the room in temper(at home).He's used to doing his maths homework in a few minutes.He hates anything he's not good at eg art and PE and won't work at them to better himself(like most of us have to in various things).I'm not bothered re the art and PE it's just an observation re his attitude.

I'm concerned that this is maybe(maybe it isn't) due to not being stretched enough at school and he's just not used to having to puzzle things out.I'm also concerned that he'll get/is getting lazy.

Any ideas on how to handle it?

Its hard for bright children when mos things come easily to them isn't it....there's a frustration at what they can't achieve because it needs a bit of effort, and a breezy flying through the stuff they can do, making silly mistakes.

I'm no expert, but DS1 (who sounds a little similar) has only now started to knuckle down to things he finds difficult, toward the middle of Yr6. I think its just maturity really, and I'm sure it'll come right as he gets older.

One of the things which seemed to really help DS was getting involved in structured activities where there were older lads and a higher expectation of pulling his weight (in non academic things) such a moving up to Scouts and realising that the camp washing up would not do itself, or the discipline needed in moving to a higher martial arts class. So I think (?male) role models a few years older may help...but mostly just time!!

By the way OP, does your DS remind you of either of his parents?!

I'm not as bright as him to be honest ie have a crap memory and had to work at maths.Was v literate though,degree educated etc.I was v good at art ironically.

We struggle how to handle him at home sometimes as he just seems on a plane higher than dp(he has 2 degrees) and I. Neither of us have a great memory,had to work hard and find this being good at everything with zero effort bewildering.

He never played with toys and just loves reading,playing the piano and plays with his friends. Often with piano he memorizes pieces and makes the odd silly mistake because he doesn't need to follow the music.He is very able at IT(which I limit),dying to start programing(dp is a coder).We find him exhausting to be frank and we're clueless as to how to handle this particular issue(you have to tread v carefully iykwim).He's dreadful if bored at amusing himself and doesn't take suggestions which he sees as critical comments from us well re work.

He's like my dad who was extremely able.His siblings are more like us and more creative.In some ways I worry less because already they're more used to having to really try hard at things when things are tricky.

He's a v kind boy,polite,quiet(they'd like him to speak up more in whole class situations) at school always gets the top marks for effort too for everything(even art) so no worries from school which I find a little ,he'd be devastated if he didn't iykwim.

Hi -

So why can't he start programming? Our DS was programming at age 6 on Acorn Riscos, and reverse-engineering games to get characters or spaceships out (as Acorn 'Sprites') to use in his own games!

What Grade piano has he got, what sorts of music does he like? Does he do music on the computer, MIDI etc? With a music keyboard he could multi-track, compose arrangements on the computer. Being in a group or ensemble improves musical experience, and is good for social interaction. Does he play other instruments, and are there any siblings?

Pity he doesn't play with toys, especially Lego Technic or Meccano, or Airfix kits.

Probably just a phase of 'non-cooperation' that will pass as he matures.

Hope it does,just wondering if there was anything we could do re his school work.

TBH re the IT I just don't like him being in front of screens.If I let him he's be on it all day.He has a Raspberry Pi dp is getting a spare keyboard and screen for so he can do his own thing.He'll puzzle tricky things out with IT so no worries there.

He'll happily play the piano for ages.He hates Lego et al ,his siblings love it.

My two DS's sound similar to your DS and have always been the type to make silly mistakes when they were younger, eg sloppy presentation or not including workings out. We didn't do anything about it at all and they both grew out of it when they were older and it started to matter. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it.
He sounds like a lovely enthusiastic learner and you don't want to make it boring or him, there is plenty of time for that. He will work it out for himself.
I would also let him program. It would be great for his maths. It is easy enough to limit how much time he spends in front of the computer.

InkyBinky That's reassuring to know. I was just about to tell the OP before reading your post that my DS has just completed year 6 and been making silly mistakes for as long as I can remember. It is soooooo frustrating and I tried, everything, simply everything to stop it. I'd point out the questions he got wrong in Maths, really tough ones and he'd say ohhhh, silly me and immediately get it right without further thought - so it wasn't as though he didn't know it. His teacher would say the same thing too.

Fortunately he still ended up with good marks, but gheez the stress of it all! Fingers crossed for Secondary.

Your DS sounds very similar to me at that age (Even down to me learning to computer program, I had my first program published in a magazine when I Was 7 for cash ). However despite being very able, especially in maths I did make careless mistakes. I hated people pointing it out to me. I knew it was an issue.
After getting a scholarship to boarding school I knew that I had to do something about it. With the fresh start at the new school I never made a careless mistake again (well not in the same frequent way). I made it my personal aim to not only finish the work first but to have every answer correct. It had to come from within me, not from somebody else, and I regularly used to finish exams in a very quick time scoring 98-100%. My GCSE maths coursework was stored by the Exam Board to show what could be done by a GCSE pupil! Sorry reading that back looks like a stealth boast, but what I am trying to say is, a very careless child given the right motivation and determination can turn into a very accurate person.

Little so do you think it's laziness through not having to really ever put 150% into something,quickness from the brain being fast or something else?

Is there anything I can do to motivate him?

The annoying think is he's such a good boy and consistently receives good results that the school aren't bothered even though it was mentioned. I don't think he's being stretched or having his needs met.Honestly his homework he does in 2 seconds.I'm worried as he won't get away with it forever and once bad habits get intrenched....

The thing is I think if I constantly point out these tiny mistakes his confidence will fall and he'll grow up thinking I'm the pushy mother from hell.

Thanks all btw.

He has a Raspberry Pi dp is getting a spare keyboard and screen for so he can do his own thing

So jealous - mine's been on order for ages.

Get him to program away from the screen then type it in when he knows it works.

He sounds very bright and ahead for his age, the rest of the class will catch up later, he might still be the best, but the gap will be less.

You have a happy, bright child, you should be proud.

Ours only came recently,some of dp's mates at work have been making Lego cases for them!

I guess another worry is if he isn't used to really having to try hard to get to grips with tricky things he will actually struggle later and even fall behind. Maybe he won't and I'm worrying over nothing???My dad certainly didn't but the world has changed a lot since the 50s.

I know you don't want him looking at screens, but programming a Pi or scratch which my DDs do, needs discipline.

Computers do't do what you want if you make mistakes.

I'm a scatty dyslexic and I can't program because I type something that looks about right. I'm hopeless at proofing and can't find my syntax errors.

Martial arts sounds a very good idea. My bright DD2 does Ballet and the structure is very good for her. She can't just rush off and do it her way.

I find the concept of DC's giving 100 all the time at school a bit . How many adults give 100% when they are working? DC's have to realise themselves when it is important to apply themselves. I made a point of not saying to my DC's when they got marks for tests 'oh that's good but could you have done better'. I think it is negative and unnessescery if your DC is bright and generally reasonably hard working.

I don't think it is laziness more that it simply is not that important to your son. He is seeing the bigger picture. When they are younger they can cruise along just by being bright but as he gets older it will soon become clear to him when he has to apply himself.

I also didn't tutor my DC's or get them to do any extra curricular activities that they didn't want to do. I also stopped checking their homework or nagging them to revise from about (?) the age of 11 or 12. I have always told them that I would support them and give them assistance if they want it but it is up to them how well they do. One of my DS's did get a few detentions for not doing his homework but he learnt and is now extremely organised and self motivated. I wonder if that would have happened if I had been the one supervising his work.

You want them to be succeed for themselves and not to please you. My eldest DC is at Uni studying medicine and feels that he achieved this through his own hard work and not because he was coached and spoon fed by either his parents or by teachers.
I, obviously, know this approach won't work for all DC's but for bright and reasonably well motivated DC's it may be worth considering. It makes for a relaxed and enjoyable home environment.

We don't get test results etc and I'd never push him as such to get 'better' marks it's just the silly mistakes that were mentioned(I'm guessing it's an issue if it was mentioned)and I've noticed too.

I'm just concerned that he'll get into bad habits,you can't breeze through life with minimum effort for ever iykwim.It's the lack of effort that is concerning me,silly mistakes will add up.

His siblings seem more used to putting more effort in with puzzling complex things out.Ds will need this skill later.I guess I'm wondering what I can do to help that won't have a neg impact such as you mention Inky.

• give him fun, challenging stuff to do, including an element of problem-solving but not necessarily academic (climbing, inventing a machine to..., basic electronics - can you make a burglar alarm? a device to let us know when the plant needs watering? programming, orienteering/navigation/geocaching)

• praise effort, not achievement

Practice at problem-solving, at putting in effort into something he genuinely wants to do, at going back when something doesn't work and having another look, at finding something difficult but working at it and eventually succeeding (rather than instantly giving up in frustration) - all these will help enormously, and once he has these "habits of mind" firmly fixed he will be able to apply them to other areas. But lots of practice first, in areas where it doesn't matter if he fails (or rather, initially finds it hard ) because it is outside the classroom/academic arena. Secondary school might well be a good opportunity, as mentioned above.

I don't know how to stop them making silly mistakes. All I know is that when my DS's were younger their teachers would very often say they made silly mistakes but that we didn't do anything about it and as they got older they just grew out of it. (sorry, if that is not that helpful but it is exactly what happened with my DC's )

I found with my DS's that once they have a goal, such as a particular exam requirement or a competition or whatever they can really focus and do well. The silly mistakes just stop being an issue. I don't know but maybe that would be the same for your DS. He sounds like a bright, sensible and inquisitive boy.

Sine I'm wondering if the piano might help long term in the way you describe.

I started him off knowing he'd love it but thought it would challenge him. Wouldn't you know the little blighter sailed through that too,piano teacher has commented on his ability in such a short time.One good thing-he bought a Beatles piano book which got thrown across the room when he couldn't play the songs perfectly.However I've heard him get to grips with 2 or 3-going over and over(have heard some cursing to himself too but that's not the point).He's got those off note perfect through effort I guess-because he wants to.But maybe it's because it's an instant cause and effect thing?

I'm guessing re the piano and programming both of which he loves/will love-the effort may cross over to his school work ie the effort at these things he loves may help long term?

Many thanks all for your time and suggestions.

Sounds quite normal to me. We all make silly mistakes. If you don't you're the exception not the rule. When I taught maths, I could mark 30 scripts and maybe 2 or 3 were free from silly mistakes.

You could maybe prompt him to proof-read his work when he's finished.
Not really a big fan of homework at primary school beyond learning tables/spellings, all the more time to follow his own interests if he can do it quickly. - music, programming, whatever.

Inky your posts are reassuring,I'm hoping the goal of exam grades might help also being out of his comfort zone in secondary.It's just so far off but good to hear what he does isn't unusual.

computer programming might actually be very good for him. You really do have to learn to be accurate there - a comma or a semicolon out of place can cause havoc. It takes ages of looking through things to work out where you've gone wrong, and unlike a teacher/parent that you can argue back with and plead your case, the computer is totally neutral - if you feed it the wrong instructions, it will do the wrong thing. It's your responsibility entirely to go through your work and make sure it's perfect and that you've thought of every last detail of what might happen, or it will go wrong, if not now, later. It develops huge patience, accuracy, proofreading, problem solving, logic, and organisation skills.

Of course, he might get frustrated if he makes too many mistakes to begin with and can't get it working, but if he's interested enough, maybe he will persist. I don't know which programs/books/etc are best for children, but for adults at least, the beginner books usually have set programs in that you have to type out exactly as in the book, and then you can work on changing them a little bit to make them do something slightly different. That kind of thing might be a starting point.

You're right.Sad thing is dp has had a gutful by the time he gets home so he's been dragging his heels re getting ds started-will kickstart him into action this weekend.

I could have written this post myself. We had a very similar situation last year where our extremely bright 8 year old was not meeting his potential in literacy and we were dealing with serious tantrums and strops every week. We had him assessed independently to confirm if he was as able as we thought so that we had a standstill of how to work with him. The assessment confirmed that he was on the 98th percentile for ability after testing him in literacy, maths, verbal and non verbal reasoning.

Since he is incredibly articulate and an absolute whizz at maths it was clear that the school had allowed him to coast on his core literacy skills and he had missed a whole chunk of really understanding capitals, simple spellings and the detail a child of that ability should have been able to put into his writing. We have had a tutor once a week to reinforce those skills and I have worked with his teacher to ensure that this is given priority in school. He has taken a lot of hard work, lots of tears but just before the summer we broke the back of it and he went up 5 national curriculum levels in a year and the tantrums are a thing of the past as he now understands what is expected of him much more.

We have also introduced him to programming and he is now producing HTML websites which he loves and is a wonderful skill, he loves doing it and it is brilliant for his concentration and he loves doing card tricks which he learns from YouTube videos. He doesn't have any interest in music so we haven't pushed learning an instrument with him.

I worry too that he is coasting a little but the school have been brilliant in challenging him and he is in a class where there are half a dozen extremely bright girls so there are a core of them doing fairly serious extension work. However, he is the only boy of his ability and his teacher did say that she thought it would be beneficial for him to have another boy to pitch himself against so that he doesn't feel that he can just coast.

We will carry on as we are for his last couple of years at primary school and will ensure that he is well prepared for secondary where he will be more challenged and realise that if he wants to continue to do well he will have plenty of competition.

Interesting OP... I have two very bright dss and the one with an almost photographic memory is the one prone to making silly, careless mistakes (eg writing so fast that he misses out words in sentences he thinks he's already written, or interpreting a maths question in a silly way). I sometimes wonder whether it is the over-reliance on his astonishing memory that results in him sometimes not making quite so much effort to check his work and pay attention, read carefully and ensure he has interpreted the questions sensibly. A lot of the time, frankly, he doesn't actually have to have understood what he has memorised, he can still make himself sound very clever and convincing as he parrots back what he has once read or been told... His ds with a more "normal" memory (ie he has to try to remember things, rather than have them fix in his head just because he read them once...) never makes silly mistakes, and he learns things by understanding them first and memorising afterwards, so is more inclined to work through problems sensibly, because he can't just spew out what he knows, he has to build it all up again from what he understands, to help jog his memory (in other words, he has to keep his attention focused, because it all has to be in his own words and from his own understanding!).

ps ds1 also loves the piano, seems quite musical, and could read books to himself from the age of 3, but always avoided construction toys (and throwing and catching). It is also noticeable in maths that while his mental arithmetic is phenomenal, he is more average at reflections, rotation, symmetry and 3-D work and more likely to make errors simply because of sloppy setting out than because of inability to do the arithmetic, so I think there are mild visual-spatial issues there (probably - it's hard to say there is an "issue" when it is only noticeable because of the areas of significant ability to compare it with, rather than because the areas of lower ability are actually low ability, iyswim... although, again, I think his memory can cover up a lot of any deficits he does have, because what he can't understand very well, he can still memorise how to achieve).

My DS1, also 8, does this sort of thing too so I assume it to be normal at this age. He will get something complex right and then get 11-3 wrong?!

If he were my son I would point out that it's best not to give away the easy marks, but not get too stressed about it. I would be more concerned about the frustration when things get tricky/perfectionist tendencies and try to move the emphasis to effort rather than achievement, perhaps focussing away from the school environment as others have suggested.

I too was an overachiever and hated getting things wrong, and i see it in some of my DSs peers who fall part if they don't win/come top etc. You need to tread carefully so he can achieve what he is capable of without becoming dependent on success for his self esteem ( we have no worries with ds1 on that score, he is well used to giving it his best shot and i admire that so much)...

Have you set the Raspberry Pi up yet? As well as using Python to program there is Scratch, where you drag and drop commands into an order to make a cat move across the screen in the way you tell it to. Good start to working in an ordered manner before he starts with Python, and shouldn't need much input from your DP.
archive09.linux.com/feature/155203
He could also try these game tutorials in Python, again with little input from your DP. He will have to be accurate as he will have to type all the code in correctly.

If people are waiting on Raspberry Pis you can always download the emulator version but it is frustratingly slow!