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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Private girls schools, North London

39 replies

traintracks · 30/08/2012 21:44

My daughter is will be 4 in December and will be doing assessments for private schools over the next few months - South Hampstead, Channing, Habs and NLCS. The nursery she is at isn't a traditional "crammer" for such schools.

I have some idea about what sort of thing I can do with her at home to help her prepare (using a pencil and scissors, puzzles etc) but would really appreciate tips on what other people's children were asked to do in the assessments, or what they are practising at preschools.

No comments please on the nonsense of assessing at this age, I fully agree but with very limited state provision locally feel that I have little option.

Thanks in advance

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

horsemadmom · 31/08/2012 10:17

Walk away from you without a meltdown.
Listen to a story without wandering off and answer questions.
Draw a picture of her family (good developmental test)

4.Identify her name on a sticker- none of these schools expect them to be reading at this point.

Enjoy herself. If she looks overwhelmed, she isn't ready.

Original poster

traintracks · 01/09/2012 00:46

Thanks for that. Might be starting to do some more drawing with her!

OP posts:

mirry2 · 01/09/2012 01:12

Very difficult to get any sense out of a 4 year old who has done these assessments but my own dd said that the teacher read her a story and she had to clap her hands everytime there was something in the story that was funny or didn't make sense. So I suppose along the lines of ...'it was a sunny day and the moon was shining brightly' . However I'm only guessing because although my dd was accepted at a top N London school after one of these assessments, she forgot what she had done as soon as we left the building.

Original poster

traintracks · 01/09/2012 16:14

Yes, when we went to NLCS the deputy head giving the talk said not to get stressed when your daughter comes out and says she's done nothing, as they all say that but she could guarantee that none of them actually do nothing!!

OP posts:

PanicMode · 02/09/2012 16:58

My mother did a couple of assessments for schools in (South West) London and said it was puzzles, comprehension stuff, and one poor 4 year old was asked if she knew what precocious meant - perhaps she was particularly so herself!

mumteacher · 08/09/2012 00:53

Drawing
Writing own name
Family picture
Listening to a story - maybe followed by questions
Puzzles
Strategic / logical thinking games
Phonics
Your DD is 4 in December so without a shadow of doubt she will have to do all these things and be able to do them extremely well. Every child has an hour assessment and a child born early on in the academic year is expected to complete many more activities to a higher standard then her peers born a few mths later.

Horsemadmom- I know a few years ago they didn't test reading at all but in recent years some schools the op mentioned have tested on reading ability. Whether this formed part of the main assessment or not who knows...

MUMFEB09 · 10/09/2012 23:04

Hi mum teacher I see from some other posts too that u seem quite knowledgable about the assessments .my dd sits for NLCS and south hampstead this year .unfortunately her nursery isn't great at preparing her so I need to do it. When it comes to puzzles is it jigsaw? How many pieces ? What kind of logical games ? Also despite facing the wrath of some others are there people who prep kids for these ? Given the intake ratio I want to give it the best shot

mumteacher · 10/09/2012 23:32

Mumfeb09 have sent you a pm.

Original poster

traintracks · 13/09/2012 20:30

Would appreciate a copy.of.the PM as you've made me even more nervous than I was already!

OP posts:

Original poster

traintracks · 13/09/2012 20:31

Do they expect.more of children at nurseries which are known as "crammers" or do they ignore where they come from?

OP posts:

MrsLatcher · 13/09/2012 20:38

This is very interesting indeed. Am also sitting dd for all mentioned schools this year. I think of her as very bright (obvs) but she can't do a lot of the things mentioned above. I am truly inclined not to prep her in any way as I think the schools are probably very good at identifying who will succeed there and who won't and I don't want her to struggle. An I bringing naive here?

Original poster

traintracks · 13/09/2012 23:03

That is exactly my dilemma. Don't really think that prepping is healthy at this age but wonder if I'm doing a bright child out of entry into a good school b my naïveté?

OP posts:

horsemadmom · 14/09/2012 00:15

Please don't prep. If your child is very bright but not emotionally ready, they'll spot it. This is why there is a mop up entry at 7. Please don't stress about NLCS. Your DD will emerge with a choccy and a smile.

Original poster

traintracks · 14/09/2012 08:44

The schools all say that they can spot bright children. I suppose it is in ther interests to do so, after all they want to end up with bright kids for their league tables not just coached ones.

OP posts:

Milan71 · 14/09/2012 10:41

Agree with horsemadmom, please don't prep it really is not necessary. My daughter is at Habs and got in based on what you see is what you get, there was no prepping involved at all. The only thing we did do was to take her to the open days of the schools that we were looking to apply - and then asked her if she would like to go back to play there again one day so when the day of the assesment came we just told her she was going to play at the school we had visited previously and see how she likes it.....that was it - honestly! I do admit we feel we had it quite easy as she got offers at all the schools we applied but we were really relaxed about it and I'm certain the lack of pressure on her helped.

holyfishnets · 14/09/2012 19:02

hold a pencil in the correct fashion

Original poster

traintracks · 14/09/2012 19:16

It depends what you call prepping. I have no intention of e.g drilling her on flashcards. But what concerns me is what are they doing at the very structured "feeder" nurseries. What sort of nursery/.preschool was your daughter at Milan71?

OP posts:

mumteacher · 14/09/2012 20:56

Ok let's see,

a child goes to nursery only three mornings a week and on Monday does a gym class with mum followed by "structured" play with mum who sits and does puzzles. Tuesday ballet class followed by reading animal stories with mum, learning about where all sorts of animals live. Wednesday cooking class followed by a visit to the park learning to climb ladders/ monkey bars- you've seen the kind of mum I mean the one shout," come on you can to it try harder!" Thursday swimming and Friday music class. Every car journey the child listens to the alphabet in the car and every time the child climbs steps they have to count them.
full time working mum send s her child to a tutor for an hour a week where the child does puzzles,interacts with 3/4 other children, learns to bead/thread, and draw a picture of mummy.

Which child is being prepped in the true essence of the word?

Yes a school like Nlcs knows which children have been "tutored" but this doesn't stop them from taking those girls on. In my daughters year alone there were 8 girls who were tutored for the 4+. And 5 of those were tutored for the 7+ even though they already had a place in yr3 and were doing the 7+ exam internally. The school knows that a parent who is prepared to tutor a for the 4+ will always be willing to tutor in the future if required so that their child never falls behind, because a child who shows some level of intelligence at 4 may or may not continue to shine throughout their schooling life but a parent who is willing to do whatever it takes is always a safer bet to keep league tables looking good.

Is it naive to not at least do some of the above mentioned activities with your child probably. You don't need a tutor for it but someone needs to sit down with a child and show them how to hold a pencil, how you start by drawing a circle for the face then add details, how to draw daddy different from mummy.

It's the schools that set up these hoops that we have to jump through in order to secure a good education for our children and I for one do whatever it takes.

Milan71 · 14/09/2012 21:46

Let me just start by saying my daughter went to a small nursery not one that is well known - many of her friends at habs also went to not particularly well known nurseries and there were no 2 girls from the same nursery.

Yes mumteacher I am well aware of what goes on but it doesn't make it right and my daughter and many of her friends are proof that it is not necessary and they are such happy children. We have many friends that have pushed their kids with some obsession that they have to go to one of these schools mentioned and you can see the kids are miserable.

I don't dispute there are certain skills that a child would need to have to get into these schools but any half decent nursery would cover these - time at home at this age should be for play.... A naturally inquisitive child will want to do many of the activities carried out as part of the assessment as part of everyday playing not because they are being told to.

Yes some tutored children do slip through the net but I know that on the whole the schools can tell a mile off the ones that have been tutored!

mumteacher · 14/09/2012 23:03

You're missing the point. They know which Chn are tutored but it doesn't stop the school from taking those Chn on.

People are cagey about what they did with their Chn run up to these assessments so you never know who had 'help' and who didn't.

Were not here to judge that it's right or not Milan71 we talking about getting through an 'exam' and the approach in it's preparation.

St Helens lose 4/5 girls each year to Habs 5+ so unless your DD is in reception you would have at least 4 girls coming from one school so making your statement of 'no 2 girls ...' incorrect. I know this cause I teach those girls and they get in.

Ps well done in that your DD got into all the schools you applied to ESP since you say you did very little work with her and she went to a small not pushy nursery. However I have been doing this for a fair few years now and know that no run of the mill nursery in north London prepares a child well enough for these assessments and if you didn't do anything who taught her to do all the above?! No child gets into every school that hasn't had someone helping them - bar none!

For someone who wants to appear very laid back you sent your DD to a very fast paced school, interesting.

Anyway without further debate, train tracks your thread has taken a turn which you clearly said in your op you didn't want - I'm sorry and I have sent you a PM.

I'm sure whatever decisions we make for our Chn now they will all grow up to be happy all round individuals with love in their hearts and compassion in their soul.

XxX

vesela · 15/09/2012 00:06

Mumteacher - it doesn't seem entirely fair of you to play up the difficulty of the assessments if you're a tutor for them. You're essentially drumming up business.

seeker · 15/09/2012 00:10

Don't you all just want to grab your children and run for the hills?

mu5icmum · 15/09/2012 00:38

I had no idea this kind of assessing existed! No judgement... Just bit shocked at the early competitiveness of it all. Good luck :)

Asmywhimsytakesme · 15/09/2012 01:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SkippyYourFriendEverTrue · 15/09/2012 01:48

Just agog at the concept of a 4+

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