Sibling Priority?

[Slowcooker123]

Can anyone help with a slightly odd random question?

Does anyone have any idea of what the averge sibling applicant for reception ratio is? (Really phrased badly
so will try to explain.

My DP is currently thinking about primary school for his son. He has moved away from elder sons school, will apply under sibling priority but has been told there is a chance he won't get a space if there are lots of siblings as they are all likely to live much closer- his new place is literally miles and miles away. (plus looked after children and children with exceptional circumstance come before siblings in his LA).

We have worked out there are 540 children currently at the school. There are 77 places available for next September reception. DP's son is likely to be the furthest of the sibling applications (different county actually). Anyone "in the know" that can give me some indication of if it's at all likely that there would be 77 siblings to the other 540 plus looked after children. Quite a pos/rich area, low movement, larger than average houses etc- if that makes any difference.

Bit of an impossible question I realise now Ive written it as so many varying factors. Guess it's a wait and see scenario.

Usually it would be extremely likely that a sibling would get a place.

There will only be a few looked after or exceptional circumstances children, and you seem to be saying that your DP's son would be higher up the priority list than any other, eldest children. If your DP's son didn't get a place, nor would the child who lived next door to school and was eldest in their family. That would be very unusual, even for a heavily oversubscribed school.

Do check how the priorities work though - in our area if you move further than an adjoining catchment zone then you're behind everyone in the catchment zone, sibling or not.

Another thing that can affect it is if a school changes from e.g. three form entry to two form entry, as there are proportionally more siblings. This happened to our local school, which is very popular, but still many eldest children got places.

One way to look at it is to think about the 77 children who will get places. Assuming 5 looked after / exceptional (this would be high); 72 other children.

If children in the school have, on average, 2 siblings, then 1/3 of the children in the school are eldest children. So, of the 72, you would expect 24 to be eldest children. It would take a lot of variation for that 24 to, in reality, be 0 - possible, but very, very unlikely.
If children have, on average, 3 siblings (and I wouldn't expect families of 4 to be the average), 1/4 of the children are eldest children, namely 18. Again, it would take an unlikely circumstance for that 18 to, in reality, be 0.

(And this takes no account of multiples, or older siblings who have already left the school.)

Check the admission requirements - some schools have siblings in catchment, then anyone else in catchment first. If not though it would be highly improbable for a sibling not to get a place. Our one form entry generally has 12-18 places go to siblings our of 30.

I guess you know the issues re friends round after school if you have a long school run.

Yes - you're assuming "siblings" is one category. It could be "Siblings in catchment", then "others in catchment", then "siblings out of catchment". Look up admissions+ your LA and you'll find the specifics.

But I'd say it's very very unlikely they'll fill all 77 places with just siblings.

Definitely check the admissions policy of the LA (where the school is situated, not your county as there may be subtle differences). To me it sounds like you are confusing sibling priority. Most LA's split sibling priority to in and out of catchment siblings. Our LA criteria is:

1. Children looked after, i.e. in public care, giving priority, if necessary, to the youngest child(ren) and children who were previously looked after - see note 1 overleaf.

1. Children living in the catchment area who have brothers or sisters in the school (or associated infant or junior school) at the time of admission. See notes 2 and 3 overleaf.

1. Children living outside the catchment area who, at the time of their admission, have brothers or sisters in the school (or associated infant or junior school) who a) have a statement of special educational need that names that school or b) were directed to that school by the LA in the absence of a place being available in the catchment area school due to oversubscription and the school was identified by the LA as the next nearest with a place available ? see note 4 overleaf.

1. In relation to Church of England Voluntary Controlled Schools, children living within the catchment area who with a parent regularly attend a church in membership of Churches Together in Britain or the Evangelical Alliance. See notes 5 and 6.

1. Other children living in the catchment area giving priority to those living closest to the school, measured by the shortest walking route by road - see note 6 overleaf.

1. Children living outside the catchment area who have brothers or sisters in the school (or associated infant or junior school) on 28 April 2012 for entry to Reception and Year 3 or 1 March 2012 for entry to Year 7 and at the time of their admission - see notes 2 and 3 overleaf.

1. In relation to Church of England Voluntary Controlled Schools, children living outside the catchment area who with a parent regularly attend a church in membership of Churches Together in Britain or the Evangelical Alliance. See notes 5 and 6.

1. Children living outside the catchment area, giving priority to those who live closest to the school, measured by the shortest walking route by road - see note 6 overleaf.

So in our LA, your DP's son would come under category 6, behind any non-siblings who are in catchment. In the very popular schools, all places are allocated by criteria 1-5.

I would also suggest that you need to look at the admissions criteria for the particular school as depending whether it is a voluntary aided school e.g. a church school, those schools can adopt their own over-subscription policies which can be different from the Local Education Authority's policy. For instance, in my children's school, they have the normal 'cared for' and "exceptional" priorities (as categories 1 and 2) but the next priority (level 3) is the children of parents who "are committed to the work and worship...." at church. This means that the children of people like Sunday School teachers / choir / leaders & helpers of the church affiliated playgroup / youth groups like brownies / guides / cubs etc get priority. Of the 60 places that the school has each year, I'd guess that at least 15 are Category 3. Siblings are after this, so category 4. Having said that, it would need an exceptional number of siblings to take all other available places.

Also, check whether the general LEA policy sets out anything about accepting applications from children that are not resident within the LEA. Our LEA sets out that it accepts them but that an application must still be made in the LEA where the child is resident.

One particular year group in my DS's Primary had the unusual situation of having 54 siblings for 60 places. Leaving just 4 places for eldest children. That's this coming academic year's Y1, so last year's Reception.

Very unusual year though, most years have around 25-ish siblings in a 60 intake. And my DS1's year of 32 (low birth year) has just two children that got places as a younger sibling, my DS1 was one of them - unusually the other 30 are all either eldest DC's or only children!

It really does vary by that much, year on year, so my best bet is to suggest your DP has a chat in the playground when dropping off his older child, and a scout around, to see how many roughly 4yo's he can see from ALL the other classes. A wander round the playground is in order.

So is a check on whether siblings out of catchment is a separate criteria for admissions to siblings in catchment, or whether it all comes under the banner of 'siblings'. Look on your LA website for the admission criteria for that particular school - it can vary by individual school, rather than being LA-wide. Of the two closest schools to me, one has 'siblings' as a criteria, the other does 'siblings in catchment', 'other children in catchment', and THEN 'siblings out of catchment'. So make sure your DP looks at the admission criteria for THAT school.

Are you sure that there are 77 Reception spaces? It's a very odd intake number. How many classes are there? Are there 77 in every year group?

You do need to get more information to make a sensible decision here. You need to check that the PAN is 77 - I have no reason to say it is not, but it is an odd number and one that will cause problems for the school in terms of class organisation.
In the next week the new admission season opens and there will be information in the guides about the number of preferences for the school last year and also the number that were offered places in each of the admission criteria categories. That information should give you a reasonable idea of the number of siblings last year but what you could also ask the LA for is the number of siblings that were admitted in say the last 3 years. You have plenty of time to get that information before the deadline for submission. It might also be worth asking the school direct because they will have an idea of the number of siblings that could be coming into the school.

I would have thought that with a PAN of 77, that normally the number of siblings would not exceed half of that figure but figures can vary widely from one year to another, so no guarantees. The problem will be if the admission criteria is not simply siblings but siblings in catchment, followed by in catchment children and then out of catchment siblings. Then you could well miss out because you would have lower priority than anybody in catchment.