Worried about "tricky" ds2 starting school

[SnortGlassesSlacksAndWatch]

There was a recent thread in chat about what people think when a child is described as being "spirited"- my ds2 has been described as this by me and I'm so worried about him starting at school in a fortnight.

He turned 4 three weeks ago so I know he's one of the younger ones, I'm not so worried about him being "behind" others academically as we are happy that he's bright enough but I am concerned about his social skills. He's not great at listening, is impulsive, can be a bit physically rough when things don't go his way and often sometimes lacks empathy. He's really very headstrong too and whilst all of these things have a positive flip side (very focused, determined, demonstrative and incredibly affectionate, wears his heart on his sleeve and doesn't really give a hoot about what his peers think he should be doing) they do make him hard to be around sometimes. (and I'm his mum fgs!)

He knows a few of the other children who are starting at the same time as they all have older siblings the same age as ds1, and one of them ds2 considers to be a "best friend". Not sure that this little chap feels the same way though as ds2 can sometimes steamroller others into playing his games and he does tend towards bossiness.

I think what I'm worried about is him not making friends :( I have shed a few tears to dh, worrying that nobody will want to play with him and that the school community (teachers, classmates, older children, parents of his peers) won't see the wonderful sparky, confident, funny and affectionate little boy that I love so much.

We do discipline him of course if his behaviour isn't up to scratch (including rewards for good behaviour/sanctions for when it isn't) but I do worry that if he hasn't learnt by now, he's always going to be one of the "naughty" children (we don't use this term in describing him, but it sums up what I'm afraid of).

He knows what is good behaviour, and what is poor behaviour so eg if we say "that was really unkind to hit your brother. How do you think it made him feel?" he will say "he felt a bit sad" I never believe he actually understands what this means. It's like he knows the words but doesn't really feel it- or if he does he really does not care that he's upset his older brother.

Will school help us improve his behaviour? Or do you think they will just see the "naughties" and dismiss the rest?

I have had sleepless nights worrying about this- thank you for reading if you got this far!

He sounds like ds, who's just finished reception
It hasn't been an easy year for me, but it has done him a lot of good. I think pre-school was too easy on him when he was rough, and finding he didn't get away with it at school (he spent the first term testing to see what he could get away with) he's settled much better.

He had a good report, and his teachers really "got" him, which helps, and he has a great teacher next year, who's had my older two, and I know will "get" him too-and still won't let him get away with things.

Oh wow, while I was reading your post I had to stop and think if I had written it and just forgotten!!

DS was 4 at the end of July, starts school in a few weeks and is EXACTLY like your DS... freakily so!!!!

Currently I am using the head in the sand approach for myself and trying to gently drill into him what is expected 'school boy' behaviour. To be honest I'm extremely nervous of how this next year is going to go. DS had extra support at preschool to help him adjust socially (we had no idea he was going to struggle, was usually gentle and socially acceptable before preschool / the arrival of DD) and he did wonderfully and by the end of the year was extremely settled and knew the routines and knew what was expected of him and rarely had upsets. I fear he may have taken several steps backwards over the holidays, with boredom and no school routine.

I'm terrified his teacher will only see the undesirable behaviour, that he'll end up in so much trouble that he'll hate school, the other kids will avoid him or use him as the scapegoat (he is large for his age and usually gets blamed for starting rough behaviour even when innocent), that the kids will tell their parents DS is 'the naughty one' and I'll get 'looks' at the school gate.

Oh crap leaky eyes again... I think I'll just rest my head under that sand dune again .

Wow I was seriously less than helpful but I do hope both our boys learn the ropes very quickly and settle in amazingly well and adore their teachers and make special friends and have a wonderful first year at school [fingers crossed ever so tightly]

I remember when My Ds started school (he's now started secondary) and there was a boy in his class just like your son, not 'bad' just really boisterous and often got a bit overly rough when playing, my son was a bit nervous of him when he started school (I remember this so well because Ds was always so confident and sure of himself I was astounded that he would be nervous of another boy) however he is now one of his best friends! Don't worry about him, it's his personality and he will find friends that are attracted to that personality.

Don't worry - he sounds pretty much like your average 4 year old :) The school will have seen it all before.

My DS1 was an angel child. DS2 came as a shock. I now realise that DS1 was the unusual one :)

He sounds like lots & lots of 4yo boys, OP.
Most of them settle well enough.
You really can't know how he'll do until you try.
I would expect some problems, it's a rare child who doesn't have some, especially boys & rowdy-rough behaviour in Reception-yr1.
DC3 is my PITA child which I didn't even realise until nearly yr1 .

Thanks everyone for your words if empathy and reassurance! Soupy- that's exactly what we think here, Ds1 is far too chilled and "angel" even now at 7- he lulled us into a false sense of security :)

And kiwi- good luck for your son too, hope we can came back in six months time and think meh, it was fine

It will be nothing the teachers haven't seen before!

My DD has just completed her reception year and is a spirited child too. She has got a lot better at all the things she wasn't good at (mixing with all children, rather than just having one special friend) and has changed her attitudes to other things (while still wanting to be in charge, is letting others into her circle and letting them make suggestions for play etc).

Just by being older she has learnt to master her emotions more and is much more reasonable than she was. Her younger brother is much more interesting for her as he can join in with her play and although he can't follow her exact instructions, she is much calmer and more emphatic than ever before.

It will be the same for your DC, school gives them routine, mentally stimulates them and makes them have to interact positively with their peer group. The teacher and TA's will be monitoring them and re-directing them without your DS knowing he is being changed for the better!

It's been my experience that the "spirited" children are usually the most fun to teach, even if they're not always the easiest.

Try not to worry about him being dismissed as "just" a naughty one.

Sadly, my child is not fun to teach. My child is an unpredictable & ridiculously irrational PITA. There is nothing admirable in his PITA-ness, try as hard as I can to find some plus side to it. He occasionally gets points for enthusiasm from his teachers.

"if we say "that was really unkind to hit your brother. How do you think it made him feel?" he will say "he felt a bit sad" I never believe he actually understands what this means. It's like he knows the words but doesn't really feel it- or if he does he really does not care that he's upset his older brother."

I think a lot of us do that. In an ideal world I think we would elicit descriptions of how our kids feel when they get whalloped themselves and be sure they could describe these before attempting to describe the emotions of others. Otherwise how can the description of the brother's reaction chime with anything inside?