Jigsaw ability at 4+ assessments. Crucial or not?

[Jigsawmadness]

Hi all, I'm new to mumsnet and would really appreciate some advice. I have entered DD1 (3) for the 4+ assessment at a couple of girls' schools in Guildford which will take place later this year. Everything I have read suggests that she is likely to be tested on her ability to do jigsaws. My problem is that DD1 absolutely hates jigsaws and getting her to sit and do one is like pulling teeth - she has no interest in doing one on her own and will only do one with me or DH very reluctantly (involving bribery with chocolate)! She knows how to do one; she just hates them. She is otherwise bright (I think and so say her pre-school teachers). She is very articulate and converses well with adults, can count well, knows most of her letters, can write her name, knows some phonics, good at drawing, very interested in the world etc etc. However, is her dislike of jigsaws likely to completely scupper her chances of passing these 4+ tests since she's unlikely to do one on her own in the test? Any experience greatly appreciated!

Do you really want to go to a school that has such stupid assessment criteria!
Madness.
Don't even get me started about assessing the skills of a child to get into a school.

DS3 has little interest in jigsaw puzzles, too.
I would have thought you could bribe her with some skittles if she'll just give it a try for 5 minutes.
My guess is that you would be able to help her with a few pieces, make the task more interesting.

I hate jigsaws as well - pointless things.

christ almighty

Wind up, right?

It must be a wind up. I can't believe schools would assess four year olds in this way. It is pointless.

I am guessing it's more of a test of whether child recognises a jigsaw & understand how to do it, not whether they do it properly & completely within a time limit.

Doing a jigsaw puzzle is a sign of spacial awareness, I was told, which has a factor in mathematical ability. I think the thing was being able to do one, even particularly hard one is not a sign of mathematical brilliance, however the sign of not being able to do one can be a sign of future problems with maths.

Not a wind-up, I'm afraid, although I wish it were. I've read a few threads about 4+ assessments on here and they all seem to suggest the kids are asked to do a jigsaw. No idea how complicated the jigsaw is likely to be or whether they'll be given one and asked to get on with it or whether they'll be given some help. I am getting myself in a tiz about it as we really loved these schools when we went for a tour and think DD would really thrive there.

Get her a jigsaw tutor. It's what everyone else does. Of course you might have left it a bit late...........

Is it important to recognise a jigsaw? Is this an indication of future greatness?

Surely the point is the doing of the jigsaw (if this isn't a wind-up) and what that indicates about the child's academic ability. So a child who has regularly been coachedexposed to jigsaws, is able to sit and concentrate, has the ability to fit the shapes and build the picture, will do better than the child who is restless, would rather be running about, finds the situation stressful, would like to play with the construction toys, needs a wee, slept badly last night, thinks the room has a funny smell, would rather chat, look at book, be a Power Ranger etc etc

Bit obvious, but er, Why not Just Phone the Prep school in question and ask what that part of the assessment is like? I think with private schools you are supposed to & are expected to be very upfront and direct about what they expect & what you expect from them.

Oh for heaven's sake! This thread makes me laugh. The poor child is 3! And if it is a jigsaw test, and if she doesn't do well, and if (heaven forfend) she doesn't get a place at the desired schools, well then the world won't stop turning. If there's anything I've learnt from being a parent it's that children will be what they are. Of course you want to put all the chances on their side, but if she's a bright child she will thrive in a reasonably good primary school, or another independent school if that's what you want, but perhaps one that doesn't assess using jigsaws!

Both my dds sat 4+ assessments in different parts of the country and both had a jigsaw. According to dd1, she asked if shd had to do it because jigsaws are boring and the teacher said, how about you just do half, which she did. She got her place. Dd2 told me she got muddled on both the jigsaw and the plastic puzzle. Apparently, the woman asked her what she thought of the jigsaw and she said it was tricky because lots of the animals had stripes.?!? She got a place and this sch was over subscribed. So, I guess jigsaws are fairly common but I doubt they will just hand it to her and expect her to get on with it. There will probably be coaxing and discussion.
Oh and if they're any good they will not dismiss a child due to her dislike of jigsaws, they will simply find something else to try and engage her.
I wouldn't ring and ask though, that would come across as madly pushy.

Pushy, really?
Must be cultural subtleties I'll never get.

Maybe pushy isn't the right word. What I mean is that she will seem slightly obsessed by the detail if she rings and says she would like to know more about the jigsaw part of the assessment. To me, it would smack of a parent who is overly prepping their child for the assessment and that doesn't go down well.

Probably the only one here not thinking that it is harsh to ask a child to do a simple jigsaw. My DS would avoid jigsaws like the plague - hated all fine motor skill activities, ones that involve spatial awareness - he has dx dyspraxia. DS2 loved them - still does, DS3 hates them - now on the path to assessing for dyspraxia. So maybe there is something in jigsaws. I know that in YR they are used to ascertain fine motor skills, planning etc.
I would have thought that it was a more play based assessment of skills than asking a child to count and order numbers and the concept of one less or one more.

Jigsaws are used in the WISC assessment

I think while state schools pretend you can't assess for dyslexia or dyspraxia or whatever till the child is much older....

Private schools are quite successful at weeding out those kids at assessment stage.

Although they do get it wrong sometimes....

(Note not liking jigsaws is not the same as not being able to do them...)

Thanks for all the helpful posts. Funnily enough today DD did a 20 piece jigsaw on her own with no coaxing. This is a first for her. I agree that I don't want to call the school and ask about the jigsaw part of the assessment to avoid coming across as too pushy.

lovingthecoast - without wanting to come across as too obsessive, what's a "plastic puzzle"?

It is only one part of the assessment but seen as important. Do not phone under any circumstances. She needs to be able to sound out all her letters, I kid you not. She needs to do everything with great enthusiasm and concentration. Remember they are looking for potential rather than ability. They do know what they are doing. The Guildford tests are far worse for the parents then the children. Both you and your daughter need to be resilient to survive the school and the competitive atmosphere.

Is it worth it? I'm not sure some days, with DS I'm thinking of going non-selective. DD loves her school but I'm not sure I do.

Chestnutx3 - thanks for your insights. Is your DD at GHS, Tormead or St Catherines? Do you know how many pieces the jigsaw contains? Any other tips? She is pretty good at her phonics and I reckon we should get there with her over the next few months before the assessment. She is a typical 3 year old though and if she's not in the mood and doesn't want to do something then she'll just have a strop and won't co-operate. Still, if that's what happens, not a lot I can do about it and if the schools are full of Stepford kids then I suspect she wouldn't fit in anyway!

Today DD did a 30 piece jigsaw on her own and completely willingly! Maybe some light has clicked in her head and now she knows she can do them she's happy to concentrate on one. Woo hoo!

I know children starting at GHS and Tormead this September. None of them know all their letters or much phonics. They probably can't complete large jigsaws either. The schools are looking more at future potential than whether a child has been hothoused from an early age. So the assessment looks at willingness to try new things, to listen to a teacher and to interact appropriately with teachers and other children.

Thanks RunningOutofIdeas. That seems slightly counter to the view expressed by Chestnutx3. I would have thought DD would be OK as regards behaving appropriately etc etc, but you never know how they are going to react on the day, do you!