'Why I send my child to a private school' Guardian piece...

[PollyParanoia]

Is there no thread on it? Surely there must be.
www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jul/23/why-send-child-to-private-school here
It's just so badly written with lots of fatuous unsupported statements. She's been so suckered by that clever thing that private nurseries do to encourage parents to sign up until 11. Our local one makes the nursery children buy and wear the uniform in the pre-reception year. Especially if the uniform has an expensive boater as hers does (I always notice that the most prestigious schools around us have the least pretentious uniform).
And as for 'Katy's exceeding national expectations', well, a good section of children in a state school will do the same, doh, as you'd know if you really were an educational expert.
And that bit about how lots of children would thrive in a non-academic environment/technical school. But not her child of course.
Oh and she lives in Kent so I think we know the answer to her point about her going private if she's not happy with the secondary school provision.

Apologies, I thought you were a state schools teacher. Yes I took it like that, but lets leave it there.

I missed some pages - I was agreeing with the post of 14.59 - it is a crammer for a grammar school and that is what the writer is aiming for.

The important stuff (and a fair bit besides ) has been said, but had to pop back in to at MoreBeta: hand wringing, of course!!

EclecticShock - you aren't an education journalist. You can hold any opinion you bl**dy well like, I don't care. I object to a journalist who supposedly specialises in education journalism writing in the way she did, though. For example, where she gets the idea that a comprehensive system is based on the premise that everyone has the same needs, I don't know. I'm 100% certain that is not the premise under which all comprehensive schools operate. For an education journalist to write something that sweeping and unjustified indicates to me that she is not an education journalist worth reading (or employing). I could get more intelligent, carefully considered and educated opinions from my 6-year old ds.

ps you can never use the argument that other peoples' decisions don't affect you, because they frequently do - we do not live in hermetically sealed bubbles. You can use all sorts of other convincing arguments to justify what you do, but the "it doesn't affect you, so leave me alone" one is pathetic.

Why do people feel that private education perpetuates the class divide more than anything else. Surely if people have the money they can spend it on whatever they like. Some families go on very expensive holidays, live in very expensive houses and flash the cash on their cars, move to areas where the state schools are particularlay 'good'. All these things advantage children in one way or another. People who have sufficient money are all buying privilege in one way or another.

I think that much of it is jealousy and no wonder parents who send their children to private schools are on the defensive.

Trust me, it's not jealousy. I don't have kids, why would I be jealous of people who send their kids anywhere? It would be pretty silly.

There's a big difference between buying an expensive education which offers you advantages, contacts, better university possibilities and just taking a nice holiday, which is nice, but doesn't really stand you in better stead.

Obviously a private education DOES offer advantages or parents wouldn't pay for it. Who are those advantages over? Other people with less money. It's fairly obvious, to anyone, why this perpetuates the class the divide.

People are on the defensive because they know their kids are benefiting at the expense of others and can't admit it.

I dont agree yellow and it would be good if you could refrain from being so derogatory. You can surely get across your point without being personal and offensive?

I'm referring to your last paragraph.

Er, you've been pretty personal yourself.

You seem to really be struggling to accept that I'm not talking about you, ES. I'm really not. I'm talking generally.

It's an interesting point though that people will call other people out on schooling to their face about their immorality and yet people arent called out on their massive houses by people living in overcrowded conditions. And yet surely if everything was equal then everyone would have enough space or as near.

Maybe I'm tilting at windmills though.

Yellowraincoat
If you don't have kids you won't know that plenty of 'ordinary' people send their children to private school these day. It's not all Eton and Harrow you know.

Most of us are doing something that benefits us more than others. That's a captialist society for you. Pople send their children to private school for all sorts of reasons and not because they think their child will benefit at the expense of others.

What about parents who move house to get their child in the best state school? Arn'te they giving their child an unfair advantage?
What about parents who pay for private tuition for their child so he/she can pass exams to get into the local grammar school? what about the parents who pays for extracurricular lessons in gymnastics/piano/dance so that their child can get into the local secondary school with places allocated for children with those abilities?

If you don't like private schools why don't you lobby your local MP to abolish them? I'll tell you why they won't - because it wouldn't be a vote winner because not enough people care about it.

YouBroke, people are called out on their massive overconsumption all the time. Did the Object protests totally pass you by?

I've just read it. Hugely self-justifying. I'm not a fan of private education but at least the posters here saying 'I can spend my money on what I like' are being honest! Janet Murray must be aware that she is cherry-picking evidence to support her case. Niall Ferguson, the right-wing historian: wow, he thinks private schools are superior? What a surprise! And why should a historian be quoted as if he is some kind of expert on the education system? She might as well have quoted Bono.

The 'plebby children would probably like to go to run-down plebby schools' bit was particularly annoying, as was 'lots of my friends agree with me'. I would have hoped someone writing on education would have a broader view of life.

Regardless of your views on private education, it's a very badly written article. She basically defends her use of private education (and she's saying she needs to defend it, not me) by suggesting her child is a special case, attacking parents who commit the worse crimes (in her view) of moving near a good school, slagging off state schools, then saying she shouldn't feel the need to defend her actions.

I'm not offended by her personal choices but I am offended that an education correspondent has such poor analysis of the situation. So state schools have 'got it wrong' in not having small class sizes, have they? Like this is the way state schools prefer it, and nothing to do with their resources? So private schools help improve state schools by providing competition? Exactly how does this work? Does she think your average overstretched state school is thinking, "ooh, there's a private school up the road doing really well. Think we should start upping our game or the local community might start sacrificing their holiday homes and second cars in order to prioritise their children's wellbeing?"

Not to their faces personally they're not. Don't be daft.

Thanks mirry2, I know plenty about private schools. Not having kids doesn't mean I have no idea about education. I WORK in education.

I also object to parents moving to get their kids into state schools, private tuition and those who dupe the system in other ways.

"Daft". Good argument.

People care more about some issues than others. That's hardly surprising is it? It's a bit of a non-argument to say "why do you care about this and not THIS?"

I don't know what people accuse people of or judge people about to their faces. Not having been involved in every single conversation that's ever happened ever, it would be surprising if I did.

Devora exactly! It's not that state schools can't afford to run on smaller class sizes, it's that they don't realise they have to try harder to compete, silly them!

I really don't see how she is going to be able to continue at the Guardian with any credibility. If these really are her views, she probably needs to find a more free-market friendly paper to write for.

Yellowraincoat I am not actually here to argue. This isn't CIF.

All I am saying is that I have never overheard or been in a conversation where someone has said to someone else, ' I think you having a big house is completely immoral' Have you?

Why is one equality so much worse than another, why is the healthcare ok but the schooling not? It's interesting no?

It's obvious to me why it's different. Because you are giving your children chances, directly in competition with other less advantaged children, based solely on your wealth.

What is the problem in understanding why that is abhorrent to many people?

Yellowraincoat, if you know about private schools you must know that parents who send their children to them are not all rolling in money.

I don't think parents are necessarily duping the system, unless you are comparing it to tax avoidance a la Jimmy Carr, which is also perfectly legal. Parents with children will do what they can for their children and unless it's illegal i don't see why we should be critical of how they spend their money. As I said before if we as a society really abhore private education we should abolish it. don't criticise the parents for doing what they are perfectly entitled to do.

I never said they were all rolling in money, did I? That's not my objection.

yellow- my children are inherently advantaged by being born into a comfortably-off well-educated household in a first-world country.

Perhaps I should expose them to malaria, beat, and starve them so they don't gain from their advantages

Our children are possibly going to be in direct competition globally for jobs with children worldwide. The terrifying reality of the world they may be facing needs addressing with something. If you think that private school users think that their dc are in competition with those down the road in particular I think you would be mistaken. It's much bigger than that.

And I would agree that that shouldn't be what schooling is about but sadly it is now. Across the board, not just in the private sector.

That isn't what this article is about though obviously.