1st on a waiting list, 3 families not been in contact with school after being offered places

[Katydive]

Hi, please be gentle with me this is my first post in about 4 years!

Extremely annoying situation in which I'm sure others are experiencing. Due to a freakishly high number of siblings this year we were unable to gain a place for DS at our local C of E primary ( a school that is traditionally undersubscribed) we are 1 st on the waiting list, but with an intake of 15 we can't see anyone pulling out anytime soon.
We were offered another local school but it is not a good school and it's Ofsted report is also pretty rubbish, we never intended him to go here.
Recently a friend of mine was offered a place at a very good school just down the road as she sensibly put her name on the waiting list for this, it didn't occur to me to do this at the time.
I put my name on yesterday (I am 2nd) and spoke to the school, they know of three families who have not replied to letters in weeks/months and their children have not attended the taster days. They strongly suspect that the families are not turning up, and that we could relay that info to the LEA.
However after speaking to them today to find out what the 'cut off' date for these families is to accept the place we find out that there isn't one! He actually said that the place may be kept open for two terms, 6 months!!! for the pupil, how is this fair?? It's obvious that the parents have made a different decision but haven't been bothered to let the school know.
It is a waiting game for us now and we are also considering the independent option until we find out, which means we lose at least 1 terms money.
Because the local LEA have done something wrong to us recently, they seem to be doing all they can to put it right and have said that they will look into these three families to see if they can get an answer, so thats something I suppose.
Is anyone else going through anything similar?

prh47bridge/admission - Some very interesting information has come to light today, the schools adjucator although helpful did not want to comment on the admissions code itself and how it could be practisced so referred me to an admissions consultant with the D f E.
Even she was unsure which code was used but we understand our LEA are using the 2010 also so this is ok)
The LEA says that they are not 'legally' obliged to send out a second letter and that this would mean 'sending a letter to everyone'! He even admits that most other LEA's do send this second letter.
The D f E said that they probably are breaching parental preference by not chasing up these non accepting and offering to a child on the waiting list.

As the Admissions Code states

"Paragraph 1.50 says "If a parent has not responded to the offer of a place within a reasonable time, the admission authority must remind the parent of the need to respond within a further 7 days and point out that the place may be withdrawn if they do not."

The D of E really tried to fudge round this point saying it could be read different ways,that it wasn't black and white, she saw it as they only legally need to write this letter if they intend to remove the place. But I don't think this reads like this at all and I don't think any other lay person would.
The highest we are speaking to is the Manager of Pupil Complience and even he admits that he was unsure of policy as he 'wasn't in the field' we are waiting to hear from him as he talks to the team.
We are also considering talking to the local paper as it seems to us a total breach of the admissions code, not to mention a moral one

Well, I am the school office lady who deals with admissions. This year we have one child who has not attended taster sessions and whose parents have not completed the forms I sent to them, although they have accepted the place. I have called and been told that the child is coming in September, but I am not convinced. We have a waiting list of anxious parents, but I can hardly tell them that I think we might have a place when I'm really not sure. Just about every year we have someone who fails to show up on the first day of term. Often they don't even have the courtesy to ring and tell us they're not coming and we have to chase them up. I guess they are just holding the place as insurance in case they change their minds about private school. It sucks, but I'm not sure what can be done about it.

Yes, there are parents who deliberately accept places they do not intend to use, but that isn't what we are talking about here. We are dealing, it seems, with parents who have not accepted the offered place. In my view the LA should write to these parents and set a deadline for them to accept the place as per paragraph 1.50 of the Admissions Code. The word "must" in that sentence means it is compulsory. It could be argued that the sentence is part of a longer paragraph about withdrawing offers, but personally I don't think that alters the meaning of this sentence.

Rather than just ask the Schools Adjudicator to comment or give you advice, you need to tell them that you wish to object to this aspect of your LA's admission arrangements. It is up to them to decide, NOT the DfE.

prh47bridge - This is becoming farsical, The Schools Adjudicator cannot get involved as and I quote

" it's not as if they have said they would do something and then gone ahead and breached it"

So we have been referred to the Local Government Ombudsman, phew!!

Hm, that is interesting. The Schools Adjudicator is responsible for issues around the validity or otherwise of school admission arrangements, which I would say this is. It is a general issue around the LA's admission process subsequent to the letters being sent out detailing the offer. The Local Government Ombudsman is responsible where people believe that a mistake or maladministration has taken place in the procedure. Your situation is not a specific instance of a mistake being made it is a fundamental flaw in the arrangements of the admission process.
Having been referred I would put it in writing to the LGO and say you have been referred by the School Adjudicator as them having jurisdiction. To be honest it does not matter who looks at it as long as somebody does.
I am not in the least bit surprised that the DfE just prevaricated, they are about as much use as a chocolate teapot but I do agree with PRH, it is really up to the School Adjudicator to decide on issues on the LA's admission arrangements.

My LA, Cumbria, is another LA that requires parents to inform them if they do not wish to accept the place.

From their admissions booklet:
On 30 April 2012 we will send you an email or post you a letter which offers you a school place for your child from September 2012.
We will give you a date by which you must contact us if, for any reason, you do not want to accept the school place offered. If you do not contact us we will assume that you wish to accept the place.

I am not sure what their policy is from 2013 onwards.

Am in West Sussex too and heard various ridulous tales from friends too I'm afraid, go to the paper!

I agree with Admission as to your next step but I am seriously concerned as to what is happening at the Schools Adjudicator. The reason they have given for not getting involved is precisely the reason it is in their jurisdiction.

If the LA's admission arrangements say they will do something and but they actually do something else that is maladministration which is a matter for the LGO. However, if the LA's admission arrangements say they will do something that is in breach of the Admissions Code or relevant law that is a matter for the Adjudicator. Paragraph 3.1 of the 2012 Admissions Code says, "The Schools Adjudicator must consider whether admission arrangements referred to the Adjudicator comply with the Code and the law relating to admissions". The word "must" means this is compulsory. It therefore seems to me that the Adjudicator is now in breach of the very code they are supposed to enforce.

I would state in your letter to the LGO that you have attempted to refer the LA's admission arrangements to the Schools Adjudicator as you believe they do not comply with the Admissions Code but the Adjudicator is refusing to comply with its obligation to consider your objection as required by paragraph 3.1 of the 2012 Admissions Code and has informed you that the LGO has jurisdiction. I would copy that letter to the Adjudicator. Hopefully it will be seen by someone higher up than the person you spoke to who actually knows what they are supposed to be doing.

prhbridge - I too agree, it sounds as if this case is completely in their remit, whearas the LGO are asking for us to make the case as personal as we can, as our complaint has to agrieve us personally, which of course it does not. We will ring the adjudicator again tomorrow. They did get themselves in a bit of a muddle though, saying that the deadline had passed for altering the admissions criteria/over subscriptions criteria and totally missed the point of our complaint.
It is worrying to here about MABS situation though, as it sounds like this 'no acceptance confirms place' policy is rolled out across various LEA's and I wonder how many others do this. It also means that they to will not be sending a seperate letter after a reasonable amount of time to ask them to confirm/decline.
Our LEA says in their opinion that most families make their choices clear to them, so whats the problem of sending out the letters to these other minority that don't respond, only something tells me it may not be so small, we've found one already.

This happened to us. The family held onto the place until the first half term. Apparently the child went to a private school instead and the parents were waiting to see if he had 'settled' before relinquishing the place, which our ds was eventually offered. i complained about it to the local education authority but was told the other parents were perfectly entitled to do it. Left a bad taste in the mouth ans my ds was without a school place for the first few months of his reception year.

mirry2 - I am assuming that they actually accepted the place though? There are tons of people that do this and unfortunately there is nothing that can be done, the schools do try writing to them but most times get no-where.
In our case it has come to light that some of these families have not as they call it 'positively accepted the place' which is to say they have not accepeted the place either way.
It does leave a very bad taste in the mouth and what these LEA's seem to be doing, is not only breaching the Admissions Code but not making any attempt to give 'Parental Preference' by making attempts to free unwanted spaces and giving them to those that would love it.
LEA's are meant to abide at all times by 'fair practice' we were told today by ours that they were not doing anything 'illegal' and that to follow up on these parents (as the code says they 'must') would mean 'writing lots of letters' - sums it up really doesn't it

Yes I believe they accepted the place. It happens a lot around here. Not nice as there is a shortage of primary school places and lots of private schools. Added to which my ds lost out on the first few introductory weeks and had to just slot into the class Meanwhile iwas tearing my hair out and trying to find a school with some vacancies as well as explain to my ds as kindly as i could, why his little friens had started school yet he hadn't.

prhbridge/admission - Well that was interesting, we rang the Adjudicator again this morning, spoke to someone else. made it quite clear that we believed that the LEA were in breach of the Admissions Code, yet still we were told that it wasn't a case for them. We quoted 3.1 of the admissions code you kindly mentioned which said they 'MUST' look into it and he said 'oh' well in that case I'll give you our email to write to and we will decide whether it is a case for us of the DfE!
I cannot believe that we had to quote this at him before he realised they had to deal with it, just what is going on?
Trouble is I was less than impressed with the DfE, who firstly seemed reluctant to confirm to me which Admissions Code was current, she basically admitted that bits from both could be used as the second one came into effect as of 1st Feb 2012. She understood paragraph 1.50 of the 2010 Code to have a completely different meaning to how I had read it, the more I read it however the more I disagree, I think it is quite clear and not a 'grey' area as she calls it.
I will email the Adjucicator and no doubt they will send it to her, but I am worried that both these parties are meant to be impartial, but so far they seem to be interpreting these rules and regs as they wish. I know this sounds completely paranoinoid but I starting to get really suspicious

tiggytape - Goodness what a palava! If anything it is the opposite, I cannot blame the parents at all in a situation where they are not oblidged to respond, I am sure in most cases that many would assume once such a length of time has gone past they would have lost the place anyway. The parents cannot be blamed when the LEA is not chasing the cases up.
I have been told that once the LEA has been informed by email that the places can be allocated, I dont get the impression that we have to complete paperwork from the school.

Well it appears that our local LEA West Sussex are going to be 'outed' anyway as we have just had a phone call from BBC South Today who are very interested in interviewing us!
We have found out that Hampshire operate the same policy of 'if we don't hear anything we assume they want it' policy.
However East Sussex do all they can to contact the parents as do the school and if they still do not hear after a reasonable amount of time they do withdraw that place especially when there are people on the waiting list.

Now getting on the television will really start the alarm bells ringing at West Sussex Council, nothing that any Council likes better than having their systems and competence bought into question on the television.
Will be very interested to see what is said.
To repeat what I have said before the DfE are worse than chocolate teapots. They may set policy and write the words down but once they are in law they seem to fall over themselves not to want to tell you what they thought they meant by particular sentences. You need to concentrate on the School Adjudicator and the LGO because they both have the legal power to make a decision on what they think something means and what that then means for you.

admission - well the BBC did come, and we will be on South Today on Monday or Tuesday, and I want to get it watched by as many as poss so this nonsense comes to light, the journalist has already tried to contact the LEA who say they cannot comment yet, but it is going to air anyway. Cannot wait, this is a long time coming.
Before the interview we did speak to the D f E one more time (in fact my husband rang) and she still maintained it was open to translation, and worse she said to him 'I believe your wife is wanting it to be as she reads it' bloody cheek, let her keep denying what it says, it's there in black and white.
We are still battling between the Schools Adjudicator and the LSO as neither seem to know who is meant to deal with it! The only worrying thing is that the Adjucicator say it may be a case for the DFE (oh no!) and say that they may need to refer it to them if it is beyond their remit. We will continue with our complaint with them though for the time being.

In my view the LA should write to these parents and set a deadline for them to accept the place as per paragraph 1.50 of the Admissions Code. The word "must" in that sentence means it is compulsory. It could be argued that the sentence is part of a longer paragraph about withdrawing offers, but personally I don't think that alters the meaning of this sentence.

I'm not sure I agree. I could be completely wrong but I read that paragraph as saying that LAs may withdraw a place if parents don't reply within a reasonable time but they don't have to. I think the 'must' refers to the fact that they have to write to the parents before withdrawing the place not the fact that if parents don't reply then they must withdraw it.

As far as I can see, the Admissions Code doesn't specify how offers are supposed to be accepted, which does leave it open for LAs to differ.

Bluemoon1084- no I am not saying that at all, I realise that the LEA are not obliged to take the places away, what it is saying is that they must write to the parents of their need to respond. Our beef is that our LEA is failing to do this at all. It then leaves us in August with places still effectively held by people who have never even been written to by the LEA until the school or parents mention it, it is the summer holidays now for instance and leaves many in limbo.
We have spoken to a few LEAs now that do unforce this code heavily and do remove the places to allocate to the waiting list, what is the point of not doing this?? It leaves a lot more work for the LEA in sept and many families on tenterhooks.
The code states that they 'must' contact these parents

I just don't read it any other way even as a whole paragraph and that is the point. If they had wanted it to read a different way they would have worded it much differently. As you say it is their duty to adopt a fair policy, and make efforts to allocate places. I know of one little girl who is next in line on the list and the LEA have still not released a place from someone who has not 'positively' accepted. They are quite within their rights to release this space as many other authorities have done weeks ago. Their attitude stinks