Need help with Infant Class size Appeal please - In year appeal

[lovebeingamother]

Firstly hello to all and thanks to the posters on this wonderful forum! I have been lurking around a lot but posting for the first time. I am appealing for my dd who is on the CI list for the school but has been denied place on the basis of Infant class size prejudice. I will appreciate some help in understanding the complex science of school appeals and rules. I have done some digging after some research on this forum and google in general. These are the facts about the school. It has a PAN of 38 children. The 4 classes across this age range are Class R with 30 children, Class 1-R with 26 children, Class 1-2 with 28 children and Class 2 with 30 children. Now, am I right in thinking that there is no case of Class size prejudice here? I am confused and am thinking I am missing something obvious here as the LA would not otherwise quote this reason in the letter sent to me. Any help or comments will be much appreciated.

Sorry! forgot to add that my dd is currently in yr 1.

The LA isn't necessarily right. My LA argued that my appeal to get my youngest into the local primary school was an ICS case but they were wrong. They were trying to turn my appeal into an ICS case by relying on a decision that had not been taken (and, as it turned out, was not taken).

Looking at your case, with the current class arrangement it is possible to admit up to 40 children each year without exceeding the class size limit provided the mixed classes are in rooms large enough to accommodate 30 pupils. They could argue that the small classes cannot physically take any more pupils, in which case admitting an additional child would cause them to breach the ICS limit. But if the panel decided that the mixed classes do have enough space to take additional children it would not be an ICS case.

Do you have the LA's submission to the appeal? If so, let me know what it says and I will comment further. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post it publicly.

Many Thanks, prh47bridge. Your help means a lot. This explains the catch then! I am not aware of the class room sizes of these particular classes but am aware that the class sizes in the school range from 53 sq m to 65 sq m. I got the information on PAN, class size range and class pupil arrangements from another parent who had appealed too. They received the figures recently (May or June), so the figures are current. How can I find out the sizes of these class rooms in particular?

I have received an appeal form only so far. I am going to take it for submission personally (hopefully by tomorrow). I am still in the process of putting down my reasons for wanting this school and appeal reasons. But I will come back to you for more help and guidance when I do receive LA's submission to the appeal. Meanwhile, is there anything else I could do?

In theory a class of 30 pupils needs a minimum of 56 sq m. In practise many schools still have sizes based on the old standard of 48 sq m for 30 children. Given that the smallest classroom in the school is 53 sq m it can certainly take more than 26 children and I think many appeal panels will decide it can handle 30. So I don't think the LA could try to argue that it is an ICS case on that basis.

However, your post raises another possibility. You say the information came from another parent who appealed rather than being current information from the school or LA. If six of the earlier appeals were successful they have already filled all the spare spaces in the mixed classes, in which case your appeal will be an ICS case.

Thanks again, prh47bridge.....this explanation is helpful. It does not look too promising for my DD's case as I know personally of two appeals which have been successful (both for Class Reception). I have requested the figures myself through email and am awaiting the reply from LA.
I am still going to give it my best shot and may be delay handing in the form so I can prepare my statement well.

Approaching this slightly differently. The PAN is 38, so the maximum number of pupils across the infant classes is 38 x 3 = 114. Four classes of 30 would be 120 and that would then be infant class size cases..

You are telling is that there are in fact 4 classes with 114 in the classes so they could have 38 in each year group or reception has 38 and the other two year groups add up to 76, one below PAN . one above PAN.

The reception year group is 38, so a reception class of 30 and 8 reception in the mixed rec/yr1 class with 18 year1. If we assume that they have reached PAN in each year group, then the yr1/yr2 class has 20 year 1 and 8 year 2 in it, with 30 year 2 in the fourth class.

If two have been admitted to the school on appeal in reception, then the panel could have concluded that it was not infant class size because of the mixed age class of 26. So this is now at least 28 in the class. If that class gets to 30 by appeals then the LA will be able to claim infant class size does apply. The alternative explanation is that the panel did decide that it was an infant class case (though I think they are wrong) but that at least 2 appeals were successful because the admission authority made mistakes in relation to these two pupils and they should have been given a place originally. That would be useful information to find out from your parent who did the original appeals.

The LA will not schedule an appeal until you submit your application form, so I would suggest that you submit this ASAP. Just put on the form the minimum of information required,e.g. appealing because you want your child to go to the school and will confirm details nearer the appeal date. That will give you time to write it properly. Being realistic this appeal is not going to be before September.

The obvious reason for the LA saying it is infant class size to you but not to other parents is that there have been enough successful appeals to bring ICS rules into play. But you really need to submit your appeal and see what the LA's case says. Until then we are guessing.

Note that the problems of having to pick your children up from different places are not relevant to your appeal. You will not win an appeal on the basis of transport or childcare problems.

Agree with PRH it is impossible to be sure why the LA are saying it is ICS. Is it possible to chat to the receptionist at the school or other parents and find out what the actual class numbers are to give you a start on getting a case together?
You appeal at stage 2 needs to be about your daughter's musical ability (submit a copy of the annual report as part of the evidence), the fact that you live on the doorstep and that your daughter needs to go to this school to form friendship groups + anything else nice you can say about the school like the after-school clubs.

On its own, friendship groups are not a strong reason for admission but at the end of the day you need to make the best possible case so I would include it.

Yes, I agree and shall add the point in the statement.

Hi again, a quick question for prh47bridge and admission (or anyone else who is in the know). What all information do I need to ask from the LA? I have asked for the KS1 SATs results, class room numbers, sizes and pupil number in each class. Is there anything else I need to ask for?

Just an update, I have rung the school and know that 2 appeals in total have been successful this year. So, there might be a scope for 1 more if I can prove my case (as two classes had children under 30).

I would ask also about KS2 test results as this is what most appeal panels will ask about rather than KS1.
I would also ask about the number of teaching staff and non-teaching staff as this is the kind of mixed age class teaching where it is just possible that there is an extra teacher taking small class groups. If they do, then that completely torpedoes any ICS regs argument.

There is no particular checklist of information you need. The items you have asked for are a good start. I would also ask for the calculated and actual net capacity figures. The LA's case may suggest some more things to investigate.

Thank you very much, both. I will send off the email requesting this additional information now.

Admission, I have the data about the number of teaching and non-teaching staff. 10 FT teachers including the Headteacher, 0.5 teacher for SEN and 0.1 teacher for Modern foreign languages. 9 TAs providing 150 hours support in total across the school. 2 support staff. PAN is 38, net capacity is 266. Current no of pupils is 269. Does that say anything to you?

KS2 SATs results are given on the Department for Education website too. Which part of it should I be focusing on? These results are for 2011 but the site has figures for previous years too.

• Percentage achieving Level 4 or above in both English and mathematics is 100%.
• Percentage achieving Level 5 or above in both English and mathematics is 53%.
• Percentage of pupils making expected progress in English 89%.
• Percentage of pupils making expected progress in maths is 100% S
• Average point score is 30.9.

Well we know that there are 4 classes in the infants and it would be quite normal for the head to not have a teaching commitment, so my reading of that is that they have 5 FTE teachers in junior classes, which would make sense given a PAN of 38. The school also has to provide 10% PPA time (planning, preparation and assessment) which would be 0.9% of a teacher. The 0.1 teacher for MFL will be part of that cover and 0.5 of a teacher for SEN one to one work would not be unrealistic. So on the face of it, there is no extra teacher to be full time in a class with more than 30 in it.
The results are pretty impressive, apart from making expected progress in english at 89%. That says to me that english is weaker than maths and probably that some of their higher achieving pupils are not making quite the progress that they should be. Having said that most parents would be very happy with a school producing those kind of figures. It might be worth checking on the DfE website the numbers of pupils that were involved in these results. If it happened to be over the 38 it would be a good point to raise that even with numbers over PAN the school still had really good results.

Thank you, admission for explaining all this to me. Makes much more sense. 38 children were involved in these results. But the year before, i.e., 2010 they achieved even better results with 41 children appearing for exams. So, I could probably use that information.

No probably about it. You should definitely use that information.

Okay prh47bridge, I have noted down the information and will use it.

Just out of interest, what do you and admission do when you are not helping people on this forum. I ask because you both are very knowledgeable about the system and how it all works.

Admission chairs appeal panels.

I got to know about admissions when appealing to get my youngest into the local primary school. It was a very technical appeal with the LA incorrectly saying it was an ICS case. It took an aborted holiday, two appeals and two references to the LGO to get it sorted. Ever since then I've been using the knowledge I gained to help and advise others.

Hi, I am back with more information and need help please. I have now the grounds for refusing admission as " That to admit a child would have an adverse effect upon educational provision within the school" (received the paperwork today). The LA statement does not mention ICS prejudice in the appeal paperwork although this was the reason given to me when the letter regarding no places available in the school was sent to me.
prh47bridge and admission, can I send the scanned copy of paperwork to you via PM and get your feedback please? It'd be massive help. I am yet to submit my documents but have to do by the middle of next week for it to reach the appeal panel on time before the appeal date (middle of August).

Have sent you a PM with an email address you can use.

Many Thanks, prh47bridge. I have emailed you all the paperwork.

Ditto, sent an email address to you