Splitting year groups by attainment

[Bunnyjo]

Just had a glowing report and parents evening for DD (4yo in YrR). I went through her FSP with her teacher and she scored 109 and I am obviously very proud of her, especially given the fact she isn't 5 until late August.

There is a tiny concern though (probably me being PFB, but I am a little worried). A letter came out on Friday which said that class structures were yet to be decided. Her school is a small village school with 3 classes - Class 1 is YrR and Yr1, Class 2 is Yr2 and Yr3 and class 3 is Yrs 4, 5 and 6. I asked the teacher during the parents evening if these changes would impact DD and she said that whilst she coudn't confirm anything officially, she is sad she won't be teaching DD next year - meaning DD will move to Class 2.

Has anyone experienced schools that split classes by ability in such a way? I guess it can only be good for DD, but I worry that my teeny tiny girl is going to be lost, especially as it appears that only a couple of the YrR children are moving up to class 2. Please tell me I'm worrying over nothing

Why won't she be in Class 1 as she will be in Yr 1 and all the other Yr1s are there?

If there are a lot of YrRs moving up a class, I would have no concerns at all. If she is the only one, it would depend on the child.

Dd has a late August birthday and being in a class with children who were all at least a year older than her would have been a problem - she could not have coped socially and it would have harmed her self confidence. Ds would have done much better and has infact always gravitated to older children.

What will they do when she is in Y5/6 - she won't be able to be with the older children.

They should be able to meet her neeeds in the age-appropriate class IMHO. It is not ideal to put a child straight from reception into a Y2/3 class where they will be expected to sit still and work formally all day with children 2 years older.

I don't understand...she is due to be in yr1? Why would they mover her to a yr2/3 mix?

Thanks all, DH thinks I'm being PFB daft so it is good to see that I am worrying for the right reasons.

I am trying to read between the lines and obviously only acting on any information I currently know. I think that part of the issue is that the current Yr1 class only has 3 pupils, whereas the PAN is 8 and DD's YrR class actually has 9. This is obviously going to impact right the way through school and I can only assume they are moving a couple (hoping it's a couple, as I'll be devastated if DD is the only one) of the more able YrR children into Class 2 to even out the class sizes somewhat. All the classes, being mixed age already, set age appropriate work now - so I can only assume that this exercise it to even out class numbers, as I mentioned above, and to help the more (and less) able children .

It is true, the current Class 1 is much more free flowing and I do worry that she will be utterly lost in a more formal class, which actually has junior age kids in it! I know that DD has sat much of her work with the current Yr1 this year and that she does appear to be ahead of her age appropriate peers (eg. DD is reading turquoise level and the next nearest YrR child is yellow - I know this as I am a parent reader in school).

Gah, I really hope I'm worrying over nothing. DD has made such excellent progress this year, as much in the social and emotional sense as anything else, and I am really worried her confidence will suffer.

Just realised I've randomly ranted instead of answering questions - it's obviously playing on my mind!

Goosey DD is very confident playing with older and younger peers. She is happy to play with the Class 3 children as she is to play with her own peer group. I am hoping that will make her more resilient to change. As of yet, I don't know how many children will be moving from YrR into Class 2 - I am hoping it's 2 or 3.

bigTilly I am assuming that, by Yr5/6 many of DD's peers will have caught her up and that this will be less of an issue. I know that the school achieves a high % of level 5 in SATs. As for age appropriate work, I agree - especially as all the classes are mixed year already and therefore they are experienced in meeting age appropriate needs in mixed age classes. Maybe, that's their argument too? That DD's needs will be better met in a more academic Class?

Jasper I don't know. Until Friday I, naturally, assumed that DD would be in Class 1 next year. I am hoping it is as much for DD's benefit as it is for the school's.

Hmm - I wouldn't be happy about that TBH. Our school has a Y2/Y3 mixed class (also a small school) and it's hard enough to mix across the key stages as it is, without introducting Y1s into the mix when they are still supposed to have a more play-based currriculum. Surely with 9 Y1s (next year) and 8 new YRs they will still have a small class? If this IS happening, I'd want reassurance that your DD will not miss out on the more play-based activities Class 1 will be doing - in our school they have sometimes managed this by some children spending mornings in one class doing more formal work and afternoons in another.

Thanks Bramshott, I guess I need to keep a close eye on things and see how it pans out. I don't know what next years intake is yet. Thanks for giving me practical information that I can go to the HT with when the changes are officially announced. The other thing the teacher told me yesterday (she told me way more than she should) was that, as far as she knew, EVERY possible structure they were looking at had DD in Class 2. So I know it's happening, it's just not been officially confirmed yet. What I don't know is how many other children this will affect, which is why I'm so worried now!

we are at a small 3 class village school.The class groupings change from yr to yr because of the variable size of intake .At the moment we have R-Y2 in the same class and only 1 reception child!! it is absolutely fine in fact better than fine.

DS primary school had 3 classes, and the split had to vary every year depending on numbers. But they always did it strictly by age to avoid any arguing about details.

I assume from what you say that one or more of your dd's year group will have to be in Class 2, and the options are on how to choose which ones?

Assuming this is not the first time it has ever happened, I am sure the teachers will have strategies in place for making sure the children all get a good result from this. At DSs school they were brilliant at providing suitable work for each child, and making sure they got a good mix of academic and social development to suit their ages and abilities.

could it be that the teachers are moving year groups? Our school does that.
So dc could be in class 1, but with a different teacher??

I wouldn't be worried about a R-Y2 class, but the jump to Y3 is more worrying, as is the possible loss of play-based learning. But it sounds like the classes will be tiny, so much more room for individualised learning, etc.

However, I did a TP in a R-Y2 class (they did vertical grouping although it was not a small school and there was close to 30 in the class, but this was back in the early 80's before the National Curriculum), and they did loads of play-based, hands-on learning without worrying about hitting National targets....

And you are right, it is quite possible that other children will have "caught up" with the more formal learning by Y4/5.

Once you get confirmation of what is happening, could you go in to talk to the Head about your concerns and get her to tell you how they will address them?

Thanks for the positives aridane1 and AMumInScotland. As far as I am aware, this is the first year that actual year groups will be split. The school used to be 2 classes (Yrs R, 1 and 2 in one class and Yrs 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the second class). But, more recently, they have increased their PAN to 8 and they have, apart from the current Yr 1 which is an random birth anomaly, been hitting or going slightly over PAN every year.

DH thinks it can only be good for DD, at the moment she is a high achiever and this should benefit her. I just worry; she is the youngest, and by some distance too, and she is so small compared to the other children. I also worry about the competitive parent thing - it's one thing if your DC is moving up, but it's another if your DC is one of the ones being held back, especially if they are an older child in the year group.

I know I am over thinking this, going to have a and stop worrying... For now!

Sorry x-posted. Teach me to type and hold a sleeping, sniffling 13mth old at the same time.

1805 Teachers not moving, her teacher was a temporary one term appointment (DD's original teacher left at Easter, due to move) but she secured the permanent position and has been announced as the permanent Class 1 teacher.

bigTillyMint Yes, I think it's the junior aspect that is worrying me. I think that the current Yr 2 is 8 and Yr 1 is 3, so assuming 3 Yr R move, that would mean a class of 14 with a teacher and TA. Thinking about it that way is much less worrying...

I agree, I need to speak with the HT (who, incidentally is fantastic and ALWAYS available to speak to) when the changes are officially announced.

Another thing in my experience of (admittedly only 2!) small schools is that they they change the groupings for the numeracy and literacy segments of the day so that all the Y1s work together even if they are in different classes and also for PE so you don't get tiddly little just-5 yo girls playing hockey with rough 8 yo boys! remember small schools are generally very flexible and well placed to meet childrens individual needs very well.

14 with a teacher AND a TA! I think they should be able to meet the children's needs pretty well with that level of staffing!

Could it be that they are moving the staff around and as a consequence the teacher concerned won't be teaching yr1?

If the classes are typically only 14 then they should have no problem in being flexible and moving children around for things. DS did his reading with the class above for a whole year, because that class had a group working at the right level for him and his "own" class didn't. What the school legally decide to do about class sizes and divisions doesn't always pin them down in what they do day-to-day!

If it's any consolation, I'd love to be able to choose a class size of 14 and children being moved up according to their levels!

Thanks all, yes onesandwich and bigTilly I should focus on the fact there will be a teacher and TA for such a small group and that DD is lucky to be in a school with that sort of staffing level.

Haunted the teacher will still be teaching Class 1; she was a temporary appointment, but secured the permanent position and was announced as the permanent Class 1 teacher on a letter a couple of weeks ago. I know it's DD (and hopefully a couple of others) who will be moving into Class 2, the teacher told me as much as she could yesterday and said that all the possible structures they are discussing and she had seen, had DD in Class 2. What she couldn't say (and it certainly wasn't my place to ask, I'd already asked more than I should have) is how many other YrR children might be moving up with DD

I am going to wait until we receive the letters and speak to the HT from there. I do feel more reassured though and I know this is a good thing for DD.

OP your post sounds like 2 things:

1. Worrying over nothing as you haven't been informed yet what class your DD is going to be in

2. A generous dose of stealth boasting: "I know that DD has sat much of her work with the current Yr1 this year and that she does appear to be ahead of her age appropriate peers (eg. DD is reading turquoise level and the next nearest YrR child is yellow"

Class size of 14 and a DD who is obviously doing incredibly well at school? Stop looking for stuff to worry about and count your very many blessings

Thanks Raisinboys for your assumptions. I wondered how long it would take someone to say I was stealth boasting. Rest assured I am doing nothing of the sort; I am very proud of my DD, but why would I boast? She's in YrR and there are plenty of years ahead. What I am worried about is my very young DD being in a class with junior age children and I was merely asking for advice.

FWIW, we have received the letter today to say the current YrR will be split. A number of considerations have been made, including 'academic and emotional maturity, sibling/ peer groups and SEN'. DD is in Class 2, but I don't know how many of her class will be there with her. I have asked to speak with the HT to be reassured that she will be doing lessons like PE with her age appropriate group.

So what are the three year classes in the school going to be, then?

YR
Y1/2
Y3/4/5/6

?

According to today's letter, the classes will be split as follows:

Class 1 YrR and Yr1
Class 2 Yr1/2/3
Class 3 Yr4/5/6

There is nothing on the letter about which children are in which class, but there was a separate letter which confirmed DD would be in Class 2.

According to today's letter, the classes will be split as follows:

Class 1 YrR and Yr1
Class 2 Yr1/2/3
Class 3 Yr4/5/6

There is nothing on the letter about which children are in which class, but there was a separate letter which confirmed DD would be in Class 2.

Oops, managed to post twice