Late admission, can I appeal due to wrong info?

[YellowYoYo]

Hi,

I am due to move to a new county next month. My DS is due to join reception this Sept.

About two weeks ago I phoned admissions to ask where vacancies were to hopefully help me pick a house near a vacancy. Admissions told me the schools were in charge of their own lists until 19 July and they couldn't help, except they pointed out a newly built school opening this Sept with, at that time, 8 vacancies.

A similar conversation occurred via e-mail which told me I needed an address in the county to apply.

So I decided to move near the new build. I phoned the school on Friday with my new address to be told it is now full with 60 applicants!

But the head teacher went on to say that he wasn't sure all would complete their purchases and one hadn't yet confirmed acceptance. I added my son to the waiting list.

At no point did anyone tell me I could have one of the 8 places from my current address!! In fact the e-mail specifically said the schools and admissions would not process my application without a county address. I feel that the last 8 applicants may not have had a local address either if they are buying in the area?!

Can I appeal because I could have had one of those 8 places if anyone had told me to apply from my current address over 300 miles away (I wish I'd read more threads here before today!).

Thanks

I don#t know which LA we are talking about but the rules are clear (or should be) it is the LAs responsibility to handle all admissions in a normal admission year and to administer the waiting list.
Having said that you are quite correct that if on the day you initially asked the school was not full, you could have asked for a place using any address and been given a place.You certainly do not need to be in county to get a school place, that goes back to a legal judgement many years ago.
If you have an email saying this. I would send a copy to the school and the LA admission manager stating that this is wrong advice, that there were places at the time and you are a victim of maladministration by the LA and you would like a school allocated at the school. Then see what happens.
I would at the same time ask to appeal for the school. It may well be that the LA let it go to appeal, as then they can say the panel let them in, not them!

Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it and will try that first thing.

Twice the central admissions team told me I had to call all the schools individually until 19 July. The only school roles they know about are the new build ones opening this year apparently. I called about 15 schools on Friday, none had places and some had different rules than others about getting on their waiting lists.

I'd be happy to name the county and even forward the e-mail if anyone wants to know.

Will I realistically get a place as applicant 61 (it's the closest school and is not religious or anything).

Thanks again

Do you mean you are the 61st applicant for 60 places, so therefore you are top of the waiting list?

If that is correct I would have thought you would have had a good chance of getting in, however you can go further down the waiting list as well as they will apply admissions criteria to it.

Definitely worth pursuing the appeal.

In the meantime have you a reception place for your son anywhere else?

Yes I'm top of the list. My new Address is VERY close to the school.

I think I have a place in one 4 miles away.....but I can't submit the local admissions team's form because I don't have a county address yet. The school in question seem to have taken me on my current address but I don't have anything in writing. Based on what I've read here this evening I'm going to apply for that one through my own current LA first thing tomorrow.

I honestly feel I would have got one of those last 8 places in my new closest school if I had have had better advice (and the email was from admissions team leader).

Just to be clear..........

The school i want is operating its own waiting list and has been happy to take my new address. They have not asked about date of moving in or exchanging or anything. I am top of the list on that basis, there are two people below me.

The central admissions won't use my new address until I exchange contracts on it. Therefore they say they won't process any application from me yet because I don't have a county address (and in fact advised me that the schools won't either).

The school I think I have found a place at took both my current and my new address so I'm not sure what they're using. I have nothing in writing yet, but only phoned them Fri pm so there might be something in the post.

I should be exchanging this coming Friday and moving in before Sept term starts.

If I'd read up on here I would have had one of those last 8 places and I'm sure the email and telephone conversation were misleading.
(Phoning lots of schools with no places is very stressful, central admissions would be much easier!)

I'm not sure what to do for the best.....

1. I could try to submit the late applicant form tomorrow with three preferences, but they might ignore it until I exchange contracts on the house.
2. I could apply through my current LA for the space 4 miles from my new address, but would not get multiple preferences I think so wouldn't actually be applying to the one I want that way
3. I could just wait to see what the 4 miles away school come up with
4. I could wait until I exchange then try the late applicant route to be turned down anyway
5. I could e-mail about the poor advice and ask for a place (but with which address and does it matter)

Arghhhhhh........thanks

Thanks TIGGY that is much clearer......but what should I do this morning?

At the time of my first enquiry there were 8 places at the school I want. The information was (I thought at the time) clear that I couldn't apply without a new county address.....so I didn't.

I concentrated on getting an address fast targeting near that school. I phoned once I had an known address to then be told that the 8 places had gone (and at least one of those hasn't exchanged either......this new school is in an area of new housing).

If someone had said at the time I could apply through my current LA I would have....so I would have had a space already!!

So can I appeal because I didn't know the rule and therefore lost out due to their information?......to do that do I have to wait until exchange on Friday even though I seem to have lost out from my current address anyway?

In the meantime should I apply to my reserve choice 4 miles away through my current LA?

How can I even appeal when I haven't at any point officially applied?

Thanks everyone ( we are 100% moving, I've handed in notice here, got job there and paid deposit on new house.....so I don't mind giving up my local here school place which will make someone very happy).

Hi again,

I have submitted an application via my own current admissions this morning because I'm scared of the same scenario happening with the school 4 miles from my new address.

I put the one I want which is the closest, then the second closest one (all are full so it makes no difference), then the one four miles away with a single space. I copied both local and new admissions teams.

I stated I would plan to appeal because I missed this 8 places by following the e-mail advice.

The e-mail clearly stated that the schools are in charge of their lists and that they won't take an application without a county address. But there is a link to a admissions web page which is maybe clearer (but not obvious). Can I forward the e-mail for your review perhaps?

Thanks again
Y

Wouldn't what date these 8 asked for a place come into it to? If for example the OP called and was given this wrong information and then it was say two weeks later that the 8 asked for places. In that case wouldn't the OP have gotten a place if she had been given the correct information and applied from her old address as at that time there was nobody else wanting a place?
I think, if I am right on this what if there were no other applicants at that time they should have given her a place however far she lived from the school. If the OP and the 8 had all applied at the same time then the last distance offered would come into it.
So I think you need to find out when these 8 places were allocated and how long after you got the email with the wrong advice. If there is only a few days in it then it becomes less clear but if it is a week or more then I think, from what I understand it becomes more clear cut.
Admissions experts, if I am wrong on this please correct me and let me know how I have misinterpreted the rules.

Roadkillbunny,
You are not wrong, this is going to get quite complicated because it will depend on when the OP originally requested the place and was rebuffed with "you can't apply", when the 8 other applicants applied and what their admission criteria priority was and just to complicate the matter further were all the applications treated equally in terms of addresses used and whether they had completed purchase or not (which OP knows has not happened). With the schools involved as well that just makes it a can of worms.
I suspect this is going to be very messy if it goes to an appeal, which is why putting pressure on the LA now that they have messed up and getting them to concede that they messed up is potentially the quickest and neatest way to resolve this.
YellowYoYo, if you asked for the place in writing and the LA replied saying you can't apply without a county address, then I would say that this is effectively an application for a place that was rejected. Whilst I suspect strongly this is down to poor advice being offered, the LA is also guilty of not informing you of your right of appeal for a school place, having been rejected. I think that you should ask in writing for the appeal because you are very rapidly running out of time to get an appeal heard. Most LAs do not hear any appeals in August and the timing is based on school days and the school term ends very shortly!
Please feel free to pm me the wording of the email and the LA involved, for an opinion on what it says.

Hi all, thanks for the very kind advice.

Unfortunately this didn't happen entirely on e-mail so isn't fully recorded.

In the e-mail I asked about lots of schools and in general about vacancies. I later phoned all the schools i had asked about to discover all were full. Then i called admissions to discuss the scenario again and it was during that phone call I was told of the 8 places at a new school.

Following the phone call I discussed options with my husband that evening, we decided to pursue the new school but I didn't tell anyone. That means I didn't actually apply (but that was because the earlier e-mail conversation had stated multiple times that I needed a county address).

I tried hard to organise the move quickly to get a county address from which to apply as the e-mail suggested. But in the meantime those 8 places were offered.

How do I forward the e-mails so you can see them?

I really appreciate the advice and help......I had no idea there were not appeals in August.

Incidentally what is the required turnaround time for an application....I've failed to secure the place at the 4 mile away reserve option today because current location admissions are unavailable and new location admissions won't deal with me yet. I fear exactly the same scenario repeating again!
My current admissions said I could make 3 preferences so I put the one I want as 1 then the 4 mile away reserve option.....a response from that if I get one will form the rejection I guess.

I can't help on any of your admission questions, all a bit to complex for somebody who has learnt everything they know from the MN experts lol! What I can help with is how to get the emails to the admissions experts, copy and paste the emails into a private message to any or all of the experts who have posted on the thread. (admission, panelchair Prh)

best of luck, keep us updated.

This is ridiculous, you cannot just be put to one side because you do not fit into either current location admissions or new location admissions. Your current LA must pass on your admission preferences and the new location the has to decide whether they can offer a place or not. As you quite rightly say when they reject the application then you can appeal both schools which you need to do through the new location admissions.
I have replied on PM to you in more detail but I think that this is unlikely to get resolved quickly because the new location admissions seem to not want to engage with you.

Ridiculous and very stressful. It shouldn't be this difficult......there is now an open place at my third preference just waiting to be snapped up by someone else because I can't get it.

I'm not even being fussy about ofsted or results or anything like that (indeed neither school would have been on my list if I had have been there at the normal admissions round).

It is a relief to hear that it isn't just me seeing this as unreasonable because it gives me a bit of hope for appealing So thank-you again, I'll update tomorrow.

TIGGY I have been taking your advice for my calls this morning.....hopefully current location will send application today simply to get me off their phones (but it hasn't happened yet!).

I just read PRH on a 'moving schools' thread and she makes it sound so easy.....

It should be easy. Unfortunately some LAs make it far too difficult. And some of them seem to think they are above the law and can ignore parts of the Admission Code that they don't like or find inconvenient.

Just to update...........
Current admissions sent my application to new location admissions.
Just waiting now.

OK new location tell me they will be processing my application next week and I can hope to hear via current location in a fortnight!!!

So I won't hear a rejection from the school(s) I want until term has finished, so I can't even appeal.

Should it take this long? It's a long time to have no place/answer.

You can still appeal although you may have to wait until September for a hearing. Some LAs do hold hearings in August.