High teaching staff turnover - common?

[PasMoi]

What level of teaching staff turnover do you consider unacceptable versus inevitable?

Background - affluent suburban area, 80% of class teaching staff leaving this year and almost all specialised teachers, not a single member of the teaching staff in post more than 2 or 3 years. The head is there about 5 years and most of the long-term staff left almost immediately then. However the board of governors is standing by the headteacher who is not popular with parents.

Trying to work out if it's time to withdraw my DC from this school, which of course will be very hard as multiple school places are as rare as hens' teeth around here.

Are teaching jobs that easy to find?!

'but it is sometimes a good thing for the children that they have decided to move on.'

Only if they move out of teaching AbigailS. Otherwise you've just passed the buck to another set of children.

'That's a shame as there must be at least 2 of those schools.'

Oh darth, there are hundreds and hundreds of schools with unhappy staff and dreadful heads.

OFSTED don't care about the mental of physical well-being of the staff. If the school is achieving good results and the children are making progress, that's what they will care about.

Too true. You need a happy, well motivated, staff to have a good school. I know schools where they get outstanding for leadership where the Head is very poor with people, but excellent at paperwork. A good Head keeps staff.

I work in a school where 4 of 7 teachers and several excellent LSAs are leaving this year. Would have been 5 but I couldn't find a new job myself.

All down to the head (one year in post), who is now busily filling vacancies with people from her old school and friends. The school is not necessarily going to be worse for the pupils and standards may not drop, but it's a miserable place to work so people jump ship.

I'm sorry to read this from the perspective of the teachers who are being pushed out. I guess I had become obsessed about the impact on the kids and didn't give enough consideration to how it feels for the staff.

Thanks for empathising with us (waves at yanbu). I think all we can do is wait to see if the BOG wake up; if not, the LEA and Ofsted will not do anything if the standards and performance levels are seen as good.

Well, TBH, it probably won't affect your children unless a teacher leaves in mid term rather than the end of a year. They will have a teacher for a year and then move on.
Parents are the ones who crave consistency and predictability.

Thanks Abigail. I am doing great now and I'm in a job I love where my boss respects what I do. Wow! The worst thing is I can still remember everything they said to me and everything I said back to them! Not pleasant.

PasMoi - I don't think it's your job to worry about the teachers. They have each other for support and their unions. You need to think about your children.

FallenCaryatid - I'm afraid I disagree.

I think the stress teachers feel in a bad school does rub off on the children as much as teachers try to not let this happen.

I think that it rubs off on the children- the new teachers coming in are going to face the same problems that made the others leave.

OK, perhaps I'm wrong (qualified IABU!)
I work full time, have a son with sn and have worked in very difficult schools like the ones mentioned here. I have a very good mask.
The staff used to keep up the pretence of happy unity very well, and the peer support was fantastic. Foxhole comrades, covering each other from snipers.

They might be leaving because of lots of things including nightmare parents. Not saying you are but schools are hard places to work and the money isn't so great people don't always feel they have to stick it.

Not 80% of the staff at the same time

That is a change I've noticed over the years, a lot of teachers will stay 2-4 years and move on, often out of the area. But the percentage is way too high for that to be the only answer.

I think the teachers are sometimes stuck in the middle of parents who want to be involved and be partners with the school in their children's educations and a head who doesn't, for whatever reason, want them involved. Who knows, maybe some of us are pushy but she's frankly a bit...odd in some of her decisions.

One example - the first time all of us got to see any of our dc's work was two weeks ago. So if you suddenly find there's an issue and they are doing very different standard work at school to at home, it's too late to do anything about it. Is that normal?

I'd say 80% is high and it's probably a hard place to work. And the elements that can make it hard will be SMT, kids and parents. Or combinations of the three. But yes it's a problem.

'the first time all of us got to see any of our dc's work was two weeks ago.'

Most primary schools have a parents' evening a term, with books available.

That's a bit odd. Don't they bring work home?

They get homework but the teachers never send workbooks or any class work home. As I say, the late June open evening was the first time I saw any work this year and I think it was the same in the other year groups.

There must be a seriously bad reason for this. The school that I work for has been through absolute hell this year and will be even worse next year but still only 2 (smt) teachers are leaving...

I think it does impact on standards eventually. Teaching is a vocation, and one where you need to give your all. Anything making the staff unhappy will impact on their commitment and drive, and therefore standards. We were originally an outstanding school then new, bullying head came in, and over 4-5 years we declined to satisfactory bordering on special measures - with falling roll numbers to match. We managed our head out last summer, and in the space of just one school year we have achieved a good, bordering on outstanding ofsted. This is with minimum changes of staff, just our new head - who is wonderful :)

The change in atmosphere in the school is palpable. I would be worried OP - particularly if the GB aren't doing much. Having said that, it took us 2-3 years to formally recognise the issue at GB and then another 12+ months to manage head out.

Franticallyjugglinglife - that's why I am worrying.. A 3 year project to get the governors to start to manage the head out is too long a fight for me. In our case, ofsted rated it good recently so they have years before another inspection.

Yanbu - same here, no idea what happens during school hours as we didn't see any class work all year either. A strict 10 minute consultation with no access to their work twice a year is frankly not enough.

The letter from our CofG was heavily praising the head so I can't see they get what the parents (and presumably the teachers) are complaining about as it is.
Presumably the CofG was involved in recruiting her.

The head talks the talk and has quite a good story on paper - has got extra grants for the school to improve the buildings and has got the school from satisfactory to good with Ofsted but I'd eat my hat if this is really what constitutes a 'good' school.

I would be very concerned, especially if it extends into non teaching staff too. Even though some staff turnover is inevitable this is ridiculously high and stinks of bullying. Why have the staff left? Have they left with minimal notice so that their positions have been filled with temp contracts (sign that the school couldn't get what they wanted) or left mid year? When HT took over presumably if staffing was not as they wanted it should all have settled down now as they have employed? As a teacher I know that the SLT support and enthusiasm towards staff and parents is crucial to the success of the school. At my school you wouldn't dream of getting more than 1 member of staff leave, as promotions are usually filled within school and teaching staff are very happy. If they do leave they have very positive reasons and are sad to go. Guess we are very lucky. As a parent I would be really questioning why books are not only there to be seen but that my child didn't have the opportunity to show off and be proud of their work to me. With regards to governors it seems disappointing they are supporting HT but to reiterate an earlier thread they probably can't admit they are wrong. Don't give up. Govenors might think problem will go away. Fight for your child, the other children and the teachers too. I am a very strong willed person and like to think I wouldn't find myself stuck in a school where I was unhappy but I'm sure there are plenty of teaching staff who are not so
lucky. They deserve better! Good luck!

Can anyone help with another question related to our situation? How long is it reasonable to wait for a response from the headteacher if you write to them about an issue?

It depends on how complicated the letter is/the issue is.

I would expect acknowledgment of the letter within 72 hours but answers or a proper reply might take longer as they may need advice from Chair of Governors or the LEA.