DD failed her phonics screening - any advice?

[formerdiva]

I know there's another big thread on the screening, but it mostly seems to be debate about whether the test is worthwhile or not. I just wanted a bit of advice about what my strategy should be? To give some context:

I trust the school - the teaching staff seem good, and the other children don't seem to have an issue
They've told me that DD is immature (she's an August baby, but to be fair her friends who are summer babies don't seem to have issues)
She doesn't concentrate or focus very well at all
We do her homework every day and read to/with her every day

I feel really anxious for her. Any advice about what our next steps should be?

You could also try supplementing with EPA - one part of omega 3, magnesium and zinc to see if that impacts on her concentration levels. I assume you've had hearing and eyes checked out to discount any issued there that could impact on concentration and focus.

"I absolutely agree with the poster who said that maybe, he saw the made up words and because it was not something he'd ever heard, thought he'd got it wrong and said the nearest 'real' word that he could fit to it."

This is precisely what children who are highly verbal and able readers do in the emergent stages of reading.

No Bonsoir that is precisely what careless readers who later have problems with comprehension do.

I have read with interest all the threads relating to phonics but I have the complete opposite problem to you op. I was told yesterday that my ds passed the phonics test. But I cannot see for the life of me how. He is very patchy when he decodes when he reads to me and I was convinced that he would fail. I had asked the school at the beginning of this week if there was any resources they could recommend to help him practice blending. Interestingly his teacher told me that she has him in her phase 4 phonics group but he had managed the majority of the phase 5 words which surprised her. Thats because I had taught him the phase 5 ones at home. Not because of the test but because I could see the gaps in his knowledge that were holding him back with his reading. Am still very surprised that he passed though as although he knows up to phase 5 he is very hit and miss at times with his blending when he reads. Any phonics experts who might be able to account for this.

cassgate

I imagine that your little boy has a good knowledge of phonics because you have taught him well. He was just tested on his ablity to decode nonsense words. All he had to think about was decoding.

I imagine when your son is reading a real book he is working harder as he is trying to make sense of the words rather than just bark at print. His brain is having to work far harder than if he was just decoding nonsense words. His reading will get better as his comprehension improves. It sounds like you have done really well supporting your son's reading. The comprehension will come later.

By the way I am not a phonics expert.

I've not heard from my son's school but I'm pretty sure he has failed.

I listen to him read daily and know that he doesn't know certain sounds even though they were covered in Reception. How do I help him learn the sounds that he struggles with?
The ones that he doesn't know are ones like ear, ere, igh and all gh words like though, thought, through.

" "I absolutely agree with the poster who said that maybe, he saw the made up words and because it was not something he'd ever heard, thought he'd got it wrong and said the nearest 'real' word that he could fit to it."

This is precisely what children who are highly verbal and able readers do in the emergent stages of reading.

No Bonsoir that is precisely what careless readers who later have problems with comprehension do."

I know my son better than you do. Why would an intelligent child, a good reader, say out loud a word that he does not think can possibly be right????

My son is not a careless reader. He works hard at his phonics TO READ REAL WORDS.

I notice that you didn't care to cut and paste the bit where I said his teacher was very surprised that he only scored 20 (out of the 40).

If he had failed a test made up of real words I might have some concerns. But he didn't. A bright child failed a test partly comprised of made up crap. I think that says more about the test than the child.

mrz - I wonder what the IQ profile of children in your school are? If there were average and under, I could perhaps have more sympathy with your point of view. Maybe you don't have highly verbal DCs in your school?

profiles

It says the test is good, and the child is not yet a secure decoder. His skills are limited, and below expectation.

The instructions about the "alien name" words were clear and easy to follow, and that removes any need for a search for a previously encountered word (and is actually an important part of ensuring that it is phonic decoding which is being tested by mitigating the variable of size of pre-existing vocabulary from the test).

"and is actually an important part of ensuring that it is phonic decoding which is being tested by mitigating the variable of size of pre-existing vocabulary from the test"

The hypothesis underlying this is that a child is able to isolate decoding from his spoken language, as an experienced adult would be able to do. However, this hypothesis is incorrect.

Our most able children did not struggle with the pseudo-words at all. They were able to read them using their phonics knowledge.

We actually had few surprises following these tests. Where we did it was with a handful of children actually doing better in the test than we though they would.

The words the children read matched their phonics knowledge.

For example - I have the lowest phonics group. We are working on phase 3/4 although just prior to the test week we had a week on some phase 5 sounds very quickly.

The 8 children in my group did well although most did not pass. One passed very well - one of our surprises. 5 got within 3 or 4 marks. 1 got about half which is in line with his known phonic knowledge. 1 got only a couple right but again this is within his ability at the moment - he only started blending into works a week before the test.

However on looking at their results they all managed to achieve the words (real and pseudo-words) that were within their phase, and some a little higher.

This pattern was the same for pretty much all 91 children in our year 1.

None struggled with the idea of pseudo-words.

Our school has a massive range in terms of ability ranges, backgrounds, etc. We have some children who are very able, some gifted and talented type. We have others with rather complex special needs. We also have many EAL children and within the school population have many many languages spoken at home.

Flibbertyjibbet - the test results you mention would worry our staff and we would look further into it. It would suggest that the child has little phonic awareness so we would want to check that far more. The fact that they were nonsense words shouldn't have caused an issue.

I'd be interested to know why you think the hypothesis is incorrect.

The ability to read novel words has been demonstrated by every single child who read the words in this test, or indeed encounters a word for the first time in print rather than out loud.

Why Flibbertyjibbet? Because he has been give the instruction to sound out this made up word ...it isn't real so don't worry if you think it sounds funny ...it's meant to. That's why.

Thanks very much for all of the constructive advice about next steps I really appreciate the comments made. I know it's ridiculous, but it never occurred to me that DD would struggle at school, and I'm still adjusting to the idea now.

Monday morning, I'll ask for an appointment...

Bonsoir perhaps you can explain why pseudo word decoding (almost identical check) has been considered an extremely effective and reliable diagnostic tool by Educational Psychologists for decades if your hypothesis is correct.

formerdiva the usefulness of the check is knowing if there are gaps in her phonics knowledge. There is a huge difference between failing with a score in the high 20s to failing with a score 0-27 IMHO. The children who scored 28-31 will have a bit revision in class as part of their normal phonics lessons, whereas the children with low scores should already have been identified and should have been supported for longer.

cassgate I get very cross with those stupid phases ...every child should be taught what they need to know!!

mrz - because the MRI based research that shows what is going on in the brain when children read has only been done in the past few years, mrz and that Educational Psychologists were working on the basis of hypotheses that have quite recently been refined.

To all those questioning the usefulness of phonics - my DDs are now 9 and 11 and were taught phonics (using Jolly Phonics) starting in nursery. They were able readers from the start and very ably supported by their school in developing their reading, but they most certainly did work through the entire phonics system. They just did it quickly.

Fast forward to now and they are both 2 to 3 years ahead of chronological age, but when they come across a new word in whatever they are reading they will go back to phonics to come up with a plausible pronunciation. Obviously most of the time they don't sit there decoding everything, but it is their fallback when they spot a new word.

When they do need to decode, this will either allow them to infer the word's meaning based on context and what it sounds like, i.e. how it is structured, or it will allow them to pronounce it so that they can ask me what it means. It remains a useful strategy and phonics teaching well done certainly doesn't stop an able reader from progressing.

Sorry Bonsoir if you look at the MRI research you will find they claim good readers decode words sound by sound

"A dyslexia research team at Yale University?s Center for Learning and Attention lead by Dr. Sally Shaywitz has found a window on the brain through a new imaging technique called functional MRI. These medical scientists have identified parts of the brain used in reading. By observing the flow of oxygen-rich blood to working brain cells, they have found that people who know how to sound out words can rapidly process what they see. This information has shed new light on dyslexia and how to help dyslexics."

I'm currently reading Sally Shaywitz book "Overcoming Dyslexia"

That in no way contradicts what I am saying, mrz.

Really Bonsoir? So you agree good readers decode all words sound by sound?

eci306spring2011.wikispaces.com/file/view/Article+One+for+Research+Step.pdf

www.psychologytoday.com/files/u81/Stanovich__1986_.pdf

Absolutely.