Help with phonics

[AuntieBulgaria]

Hullo, DD is starting reception in September. She has recently started trying to read things by herself by sounding out the letters. I want to support her but am worried about giving her 'bad' info. Or not actually knowing how to explain.

She was trying to read the word 'alien' in the back of the car the other day but she is used to A making the sound 'ah' (well not ah but you know what I mean, not ay).

Forgive me for being totally dim but why is it 'ay' in alien and age? Is it what I would have called - 'the magic 'e'? Is that what's called a split diagraph?

I read the guide to phonics that DD's school issues and it says that at school they are not given books to read with phonemes they haven't learnt yet but DD is just trying to give it a go with everything she comes across.

What should I say when the word she is reading does something unfamiliar?

Some times she can work it out - she read and blended 'like' as luh i ck eh but then said 'like' because she could make it make sense in the context I suppose.

More fool the school which books "training" which actually just sells products and doesn't train the teachers. I'm sure you're right that this happens, but that's what you get in today's society where social conscience is an irrelevance and aiming for personal profit is always an honourable motive.

The trainers are inspected, I think.

Feenie, I said they could make their own 'decodable' books, not reading books.

They of course will read the decodable books, but for sustained practice they need good books with a proper story, which they can relate to, but are of a 'certain standard'. Not crass stories, shoe horning 'phonically decodable' words in, creating stories that don't scan. Children should be learning how words work and sentences are constructed, which they can relate to their own writing of proper sentences. A skilled teacher can initiate a genuine discussion for a piece of writing that a child is enthused to write, that has particular words that they need to work on.

Are all books written to be phonically decodable, crass?

Or should I say, any more crass than the reading scheme books which are not written to be phonically decodable? Or should all children be learning to read by reading "Room on the Broom," "The Giant Jam Sandwich" and other children's favourites?

Not crass stories, shoe horning 'phonically decodable' words in, creating stories that don't scan

Are you going to enlighten us as to where you are getting this from??? I don't recognise any of the books I have seen from this description - many decodable schemes are extremely well written and very engaging.

And about how many children you have taught to read, using decodable readers or otherwise?

You appear to be the Victor Meldrew of the phonics threads, grumbling about this and that, but nothing in particular.

So you want to shelve an entire methodology, that actually, for the first time, teaches all kids to read, because you haven't liked a couple of books that you've seen very much?

Children should be learning how words work and sentences are constructed, which they can relate to their own writing of proper sentences. A skilled teacher can initiate a genuine discussion for a piece of writing that a child is enthused to write, that has particular words that they need to work on.

Why on earth do you imagine that teachers wouldn't? And what's that got to do with decodable reading books?

No rabbitstew Biff Chip et al are written specifically for the look and say method. Of course they are decodable but often include words that a beginner reader is unlikely to be able to decode independently at a very early stage.

I think rabbitstew was asking zebedee if all decodable readers are crass - which of course is a very silly thing to say.

Can you get any more crass than Biff & Chip? Sorry we used Ginn360 so I know the answer

zebedeee

As a parent I think appropriate books make the world of difference. When my son started reception in 2008 the school had ORT, including the Songbird Phonics to be fair, with a smattering of Jelly and Bean. By September 2011 when my daughter started, they had more Jelly and Bean and a load of Dandelion Launchers and Readers, here:
www.phonicbooks.co.uk/product.php?catid=1&subcatid=10

My daughter loved these books and as a parent I think they are fantastic phonics books. DD really enjoyed the Usborne phonics which we have at home as well, but the Dandelion ones start from an earlier level and are brill. I really don't see how the children themselves could produce anything of that quality. The Jelly and Bean ones are good as well though.

Big Cat phonics are fab - I like the new ORT Sounds and Letters, and the updated Floppy Phonics too.

I've read lots on here about the Big Cat Phonics but have still never seen them. Haven't seen any of the new ORT stuff either. Might have been hunting them out for home though had the school not had the Jelly and Bean and Dandelion ones.

I used Reading Chest with my own son for a while, until his school began sending home phonics readers in a panic just before the screening test. I have stopped the subscription now, but it was a another good way for me to see what's out there and what ds enjoyed.

I wonder if zebedee realises that whatever method is used for teaching reading someone is going to make a profit out of the instructional resources produced commercially to support that method.

Not crass stories, shoe horning 'phonically decodable' words in,

What an odd statement. If you took all the decodable words out of any piece of text there would be nothing left to read!

I don't think zebedee realises what she realises, tbh.

Exactly! That's why I wrote 'phonically decodable' rather than phonically decodable.

Sid Snaps, A Little Green Monster and a book which could have had the title 'Is it?' are, for me, particular lows of the 'SP' genre.

The pig, hen and cat in New Way are the creatures of nightmares.

Yes, I do realise that whatever method is used people will profit but I wonder if in this instance, the profits to be made are greater. And that the focus on improving reading is on one specific area (where the money is being spent), when the wider picture is not being considered.

New Way, is old, old, old.

The problem has been that most schemes were look and say for years.

Jelly and Bean were the first to forge into genuine SP territory.

Now there are lots of lovely books to choose from - as a Literacy coordinator it's very exciting now. At last we have loads of suitable texts to use.

The wider picture is making sure ALL children can read, not making sure one poster on MN, who actually admits that she hasn't seen a recently published decodable text, isn't a bit upset for reasons she can't quite articulate.

Feenie
We are using Songbirds.
What other SP schemes would you recommend?

Exactly! That's why I wrote 'phonically decodable' rather than phonically decodable.

The deep significance of the quote marks eludes me.

I wonder if in this instance, the profits to be made are greater.

I think I would rather that fewer people made a decent profit from selling training and resources which actually do what it says on the tin, i.e. teach children to read, than lots of people make smaller profits from selling garbage (and there is an awful lot of garbage out there.) which often disables them for life.

And, as it is our taxes which pay for education resources I'd rather mine were being spent on effective resources rather than garbage...

We have had Jelly and Bean, Songbirds, Jolly Readers, Rigby Star and Floppy Phonics for years.

We also have Big Cat Phonics, ORT Sounds and Letters and new Floppy Phonics now.

We use Songbirds (main scheme) Phonic Bugs, Rigby Star Phonics, Big Cat Phonics, Project X phonics, Comics for Phonics, Sounds and Letters Floppy's Phonics, Rapid Phonics, RagTag Rhymes, Project X the Code.

Have just bought some Project X phonics - would love to be able to get Comics for Phonics, too.

Zebedeee 'New Way' is so old it used to be the Gay Way Series full of pigs, pots and pans. My daughter thought it was better than 'The Happy Trio' which preceded it in her school reading during the 1970's. See Tip Run was the highlight of that particularly boring scheme followed by Run Run Run on the next page. I remember my dd wailing, "Why do they do everything 3 times?"

Is SP mostly taught in class groups because it could be very boring for some children . If no one is left behind,the class must proceed at the pace of the slowest in the class group.

Different schools teach phonics in different ways. We teach whole class and teach a new sound each day. Previously taught sounds are revisited each day so all children move on but those who may not have "grasped it" the first time get a second, third, fourth, fifth ......... opportunity. It's constant reinforcement and new learning so no one is left behind and no one is bored.