Appeal not upheld - what next?

[bluecatnails]

Hoping someone can offer some advice here - we were refused a place at the school we chose for our daughter, due to start in Sept this year. She has been offered a place at a school that we feel is totally unsuitable for her (heavy emphasis on religion and we are atheists, high intake of "under-acheivers" when our daughter is described by her pre-school as "exceptionally bright & capable. Will need plenty of challenges & stimulation", it's the other side of town, away from all her friends and not 'local' as per the LEA's statement of preferences for allocating places, plus the school has a dreadful reputation and is currently under special measures for bullying etc) so we've politely declined that place.

We went through the appeal process - apparently there were 12 appellants & we have been told nobody has got through on appeal because the school is over-subscribed. Doh! We knew that, that's why we went to appeal!! Surely if that's the case, there was no point in holding appeals in the first place? The reason they gave was it wouldn't be fair to uphold just one appeal - they'd have to uphold them all...what?!

Anyway, we are left in a position now where we have no school place for our daughter. We could home-educate, but this is not ideal (we have a 10 year old at a different school and a 2 year old). How can we go about finding a place for her at a non-denom school when they are all full? Surely on religious grounds there must be something we can do? Can we appeal against the appeal panel's decision? Can we find out where on the waiting list we are for the preferred school so we can ascertain if it's worth waiting?

I'm at a loss as to what to do next - we can't afford an Independent school & at this late stage it's unlikely we'd get any kind of bursary for a primary place.

Help!!

Yes, you can ask the local authority where you are currently on the waiting list and they will be able to tell you. You can also add your DC's name to other school's waiting lists. The LA can also advise you where in their geographical locality there are currently spaces available, if any. If you agree to a place over 2 miles away, the local authority will provide transport for your child.

But the local authority have fulfilled its obligations by offering you a place, even though you have chosen not to take it, so they do not HAVE to find you an alternative. The onus is on you now. Legally, your child does not have to receive an education until the term of their fifth birthday, so if your child is one of the younger reception children, you could even keep her at home or at a nursery setting while waiting for a suitable place to come up, at your first choice school or another.

Find a min of 3 schools you would be happy for her to attend, that you have a chance of being placed in a good position on their wait lists. There is a lot of movement right up until term starts. You can stay on a list for your preferred school even after accepting a school you don't like so much, and then move should a place become available. Good luck.

Oh dear, what a worry.

Yes, you can find out where you are on the waiting list, BUT you need to be aware that those lists fluctuate almost daily and you can move down as well as up (if people move house and are closer to the school than you are). It would give you a rough idea, however. How large is the intake for your preferred school? Obviously, the larger the intake, the more chance there is of people moving.

The added difficulty you have is that you have refused the place you were offered. I understand why, but I'm afraid it does mean that officially the LEA has no obligation to find you another place elsewhere. If you had accepted it, it would have made no difference to your appeal chances or your position on waiting lists for other schools, but at least your dd would have had somewhere to go whilst you looked for alternatives. And the fact that the school has a number of under-achievers does not mean that they will not provide well for your dd as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by "under special measures for bullying." If a school goes into special measures, it would not be for one specific thing like that. And, for the record, there will be bullying of some sort or another in any school. If a Head Teacher tells you there is no bullying in their school I would say they are either in denial or lying, I'm afraid! They key thing is what steps they are taking to deal with it promptly and efficiently when it occurs.

If you have a 10yo already in a primary school, are there no places at that school, where you might qualify higher up the list as a sibling?

"If you agree to a place over 2 miles away, the local authority will provide transport for your child."

Erm, you might need to check that out. In our LEA, for secondary at least, that's not automatic; it's only if the school they offer you is more than a certain distance away. If you refuse that school and opt for another slightly further away, they will not pay. But primary might be different.

Free transport is provided for children who have more than 2 miles to travel, up to the age of 9.

Ah, OK.

Are there any places available at the school attended by your 10 year old as having a sibling link would usually put you higher up on the waiting list - or was this the school you appealed for?

Washedup,

I think that is only if the LEA have offered you a school more than 2 miles away and you take that offer up that you get transport. If you travel over 2 miles BUT you go past ANY school with places that you chose not to take up that is less than 2 miles away, you don't.

So if, for example, you chose to turn down a place in your catchment area school but instead chose to travel a long distance to a school that you thought was 'better', then you have to pay for the transport IYSWIM?

I imagine that you lost your appeal not because the school is over-subscribed but (and the distinction is important) because it is full. I am assuming that this was an infant class size case, ie one where the classes are already full to the legal limit of 30 pupils with one teacher.

You asked what is the point of hearing appeals. The point of hearing appeals in ICS cases is to examine whether there has been an error which has deprived the child of a place and which justifies admitting the child over and above the legal limit of 30. Essentially the panel is looking for evidence of (i) an error such as wrong measurement of the distance from home to school, (ii) admission arrangements which contravene the law or the admissions code or (iii) a decision to refuse a place which is so unreasonable as to be perverse.

It does not sound to me as if any of those things were present your case. Having preferences which the LEA has not been able to accommodate is not enough to win any appeal and especially an ICS appea and preferring a non-faith school, your child's intellectual abilities and the Ofsted ranking of the allocated school are irrelevant. If you think the appeal panel has somehow misdirected itself or not taken evidence of (i), (ii) or (iii) into account you can appeal to the Local Government Ombudsman, but again I would not hold out much hope.

Your options now are to find another school with a place for your child, but it is likely that now the only schools with vacancies will be further from home and less popular than the school at which you turned down the place. You can join waiting lists, but as waiting lists are held in the same order as the oversubscription priorities, you won't necessarily be near the top - not having a school place doesn't give you and additional priority (just as it didn't at your appeal). The LEA should be able to tell you where you are on each waiting list (or the school itself if it is its own admissions authority). Nor will your preference for a non-faith school give you any additional priority at those (and you need to remember that all schools are required by law to hold assemblies of a 'broadly Christian' nature so you will never get a wholly secular education unless you withdraw your child from assembly and RE).

Is there no chance of a place at your older child's school?

Clam is right, I think (although I stand to be corrected), about free transport to school. It applies to the school you've been offered and you've already turned that down. The LEA should have information about this on its website.

Why did your DC not get into the same primary as your 10yo? Surely as a sibling they would have been fairly high up the admission criteria? Did you not apply to the school your older DC is at, did you put information about the sibling link on your application form, did the LEA overlook the sibling link, or were there more siblings that year than places?

How would you be able to withdraw your DC from the religious aspects of the day in a Catholic school? Genuine question, as my friend's DD is at a Catholic school, and her DD would have to be withdrawn from over 50% of the lessons...

you should try and find out where else has spaces and go and take a look. A friend of mine had this problem. Actually got her head round with the nearby school that she was offered (she went and looked at it, quite liked it etc), when a letter came offering her a place FAR AWAY from her house, but she took it anyway.

good luck.

you should try and find out where else has spaces and go and take a look. A friend of mine had this problem. Actually got her head round with the nearby school that she was offered (she went and looked at it, quite liked it etc), when a letter came offering her a place FAR AWAY from her house, but she took it anyway.

good luck.

And surely it is discriminatory that Catholics get priority for a Catholic school but atheists don't get priority for Community schools?

Community schools are broadly Christian in that they have, by law, to hold daily assemblies. They are not "atheist" as such, so why would an atheist qualify over and above anyone else? I believe that Catholic schools are partially funded by the Catholic church?? (correct me if I'm wrong on that, someone)
Interestingly, in the USA, which is generally a more religious country than the UK these days, all state schools are totally secular and don't celebrate any religious festivals within their curriculum. You won't find Nativity plays going on in December, for example. They leave all that to the churches and Sunday school.

The free travel thing - I really don't think it works like that around here. Children are allowed free travel on public transport (london) and I can't find anything that says they will provide transport anywhere.

If the school you ar allocated is over 2 miles away (primary) or 3 miles away (secondary) then the LA must provide transport (eg bus pass, school bus, vetted taxi).

This might not apply in this case, because they have turned down the located school. if it was within the 2 mile cut off, then there is no obligation to either offer another school, or pay for transport to one further away.

In our area they just say bus passes are free to all children and that's that!

Except in exceptional circs eg if the child has special needs

Thing is it's free for the child but not the person going with them! So not really free at all

Oh sorry OP for going off track I was just interested in this transport thing.

Ah I see, if the LA offers an "alternative" school over 2 miles away then there is no offer of transport? Only for the initial allocated school? I stand corrected. So many experts on this forum. Marvellous.

clam catholic schools are indeed partially funded by the Catholic Diocese.

Yes, if they have offered you a school within the distance, they are not obliged to fund you if decline and take up a place further away. Some might, but with squeezed budgets all round, provision above the required minimum is getting rarer and rarer.

WashedUp - I/m in London too, where my LEA offers a bus pass (which would be free to under 16s anyway, so I'm a bit puzzled) or a rail pass if there are exceptional reasons why the child can't travel by bus, so I have no direct experience of how it works outside London. But, as I read it, the LEA has to offer help with transport costs if the allocated school is farther away than the preferred school and is more than 2 (or 3 for secondary school) miles. So, if the preferred school is farther away than the allocated school, then the LEA can assume that the parent was happy to get their child to a school (say) 5 miles away and doesn't have to offer help with costs. I'm also assuming that the offer of help with transport costs lapses if the place is refused. I don't know if the LEA is under any obligation to make a new offer of help with transport costs if the parent applies for or accepts a place at a new school, but I doubt it.

Admission or prh47bridge know more about this.