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Original poster

Campaign for affordable pre- and after school childcare?

36 replies

Talulah66 · 30/06/2012 07:46

There is no legal requirement on schools to be offer their pupils access to affordable breakfast clubs and after-school clubs, providing wrap-around care from 8am-6pm. Some schools do offer this, but many do not.

Such services do not necessarily require subsidy - parents can pay. The services needn't even be on school premises or run by the school so long as the children can be taken to/from the club safely and prices are affordable. Schools just need to have the right incentives to get provision organised.

Does anyone know of a campaign group currently pushing for a change in the law on this - that is, to make it a legal requirement for schools to offer access to such a service? I would like to sign up in support!

Alternatively, if no one is pushing for this currently, would anyone support starting up a campaign?

Also does anyone have more information on if/where this issue has been considered before?

Thanks!

OP posts:
Rockpool · 30/06/2012 09:47

I think schools have enough on their plates without being forced to do this tbh.

Our school has a service such as you require but it's run by a private company.After school schemes involve masses amount of paperwork and are also a small business I guess.They need to be good/outstanding as kids deserve that,to be good the amount of work is incredible.I'd personally rather teachers/schools were concentrating on classes/the school day tbh.

Seems to be a gap in the market,I wonder why there aren't more companies like those nursery chains doing it,maybe there are.

The company running ours does all sorts of things and swimming.The people who run it are extremely good and it's very good quality but it must be a huge full time job.Kids deserve quality.

MWB22 · 30/06/2012 10:08

It is also about the definition of affordable. If it is off school site it depends on premises costs as well as the usual staffing, etc. and it will need a higher ratio to walk the children to their school/s.
If it is on site it depends on the school having the right staff and rooms/facilities. I wouldn't like my children finishing a long day at school, then staying in their classroom for the after school club. And for breakfast club, how would teachers set up for the day?
Finally my school already subsidises the club in as much as the hours of admin is provided by the school office staff so their hours had to be increased from main school budget, not from payments for the care. Like any business, if the clubs are ever under-subscribed for a session (children ill, parents not at work that day, etc) the school still has to pay breakfast club / after school club staff and that comes from school, so that is money from teaching funds.
Any campaign needs to ensure it doesn't detract from the schoool's main function; education. As many other thread on here say; school is education, not child care.

germyrabbit · 30/06/2012 10:12

Isn't this was the extended schools thingy was set up to do? and it failed pretty much

germyrabbit · 30/06/2012 10:13

i for one think children's centres should be used for after school provision, they only seem bothered about the under 5s which is a bit mad imo

mrz · 30/06/2012 15:20

Talulah66 who is going to staff this service?

tiggytape · 30/06/2012 18:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

goodygumdrops · 30/06/2012 18:14

I dont agree with this because i dont think schools should be seen as childcare in any way shape or form. They are there to educate children.

Childcare is a massive issue and does need addressing but I really don't think this is the way forward.

Tgger · 01/07/2012 00:05

Funny how most are so against. I guess it depends on culture and what we are used to. In some countries there is often a "Free time" club (as in not school time) provided for children until 5 or 6pm so that parents can work. It's expected that most/a lot of children will go to this. I'm not sure who it is run by but it is seen as good quality childcare that is good for parents and children.

clemetteattlee · 01/07/2012 00:11

At our school a group of parents decided to set up and run the wraparound care on the school premises. It is now in its twelfth year and is eminently affordable (after school is less than £3/hr).

clemetteattlee · 01/07/2012 00:13

PS the parents don't staff it but they run the committee that handles the finances/does HR etc.

AbigailS · 01/07/2012 09:39

Question to OP. You say schools need the "right incentives" and then talk about changing the law, so by incentives do you mean schools should be legally forced to run before school and after school care? There are a complex variety of reasosn why some schools (not mine) do not do this so a blanket law would not work and could put huge stress and financial strain on schools. Unless the children just spent another 4 / 5 hours a day in their classrooms; which in my mind is totally unaceptable. My own DC have spend long enough in a work environment by 3pm, and as a primary teacher I do need time without the children in the room to prepare lessons, etc. and I don't fancy doing that at 6pm when the children go home.
Yes, sufficient childcare needs to be available; no, schools shouldn't be forced to provide it. Their primary function is education and although there is more than education in our remit we are not in charge of child care - parents are and that is how it should remain. I was horrified at the recent press report on the proposal that schools provide 6am - 8 pm care ... but that would be another thread.

Rockpool · 01/07/2012 11:10

I know Abigail,I dopn't think there can be a single child who would benefit from being in a school building until 8pm or god forbid 6am until 8pm!!!Shock

Twas pretty much the most shocking thing I've heard come from Gove. Would Gove want his child in a run down school building with hideous lighting,no home comforts or freedom for 14 hours?Would even he want to be in a school building for that long,I know I wouldn't.

Original poster
Talulah66 · 01/07/2012 15:59

Thanks. This is really helpful and I see now that the issue is hugely more complex than I had thought.

I had just noted, trying to find a new school for my kids (we are moving) that all the schools with good pre and after school care are totally popular and full and the only ones we can get the kids into locally don't even have breakfast clubs.

This led me to wonder whether this was just one more differentiating factor between what opportunities different children have and one that t might be good to resolve.

Personally I would much rather let my kids (6 and 9) stay at school with their mates until 6pm - and potentially thereby have access to other after-school activities - than have to have them picked up by a childminder at 3.30 and be surrounded by toddlers for the rest of the day. .

But.....looks like that's what''s going to have to happen.

OP posts:
mrz · 01/07/2012 16:02

We don't have breakfast club or after school care and are over subscribed.
If we ran things after school it would mean the Rainbows and Brownies couldn't use the school, the St John's Ambulance couldn't use the school the under 11s football team couldn't use the school etc etc etc

Original poster
Talulah66 · 01/07/2012 16:03

Ps no offence meant to childminders - or toddlers.

OP posts:
mrz · 01/07/2012 16:08

as a parent I preferred my children to be cared for by a child minder in a home environment

darthsillius · 01/07/2012 16:17

The childminders near me charge between 6-10 per hour per child. There are no spaces in the school breakfast and after school club as its really popular and staffed by lovely nursery nurses and TAs. If I got a place at school it would cost me £20 per day for 2 children. As I can't, it will cost me between £36 to £60 a day!

The school is expanding but the wrap around care isn't .

pointythings · 01/07/2012 16:27

I think it's part of the wider UK problem that childcare is considered not a political priority - because investing in the provision of good quality childcare of the kind they have in Scandinavian countries (for all ages from babies through school age) would mean we would all have to pay more in tax - and in the UK the culture means that this is politically not viable.

On the one hand we want people to be able to work and be able to pay their own way, but we are unwilling to put the infrastructure in place to make going to work financially viable. We don't want people to stay on benefits because then we're subsidising them with our taxes, but we don't want to pay into affordable childcare with our taxes either. Until we all get a little less selfish, nothing will change in this country.

Personally, given my experience of childminders, I'd rather have childcare provided in school or by an outside organisation. I've had so many issues with unreliability - childminder going on holiday during term time (despite having school age children), no cover available anywhere - at least with a larger organisation the absence of one person doesn't bring everything to a screeching halt.

Original poster
Talulah66 · 01/07/2012 18:21

Thanks mrz. Really helpful. Not sure how I missed that news!

OP posts:
cheesesarnie · 01/07/2012 18:26

Our school doesn't charge for the early morning club, but all parents have said that they would be willing to pay.

At the moment mine go rarely but from september I will use it more as I will be travelling to study.
After school we will be using a childminder, I'm not sure I'd want them staying in school until 6pm.

pointythings · 01/07/2012 18:27

mrz I'll believe it when I see it.

Tax relief on childcare would be an enormous step in the right direction, but I just don't see it happening.

If my DDs were currently of an age to need full time childcare in my part of the world, I would be taking home £55 a month after paying for childcare. And I'm pretty well paid.

mrz · 01/07/2012 18:30

i didn't say I believed it pointythings

pointythings · 01/07/2012 19:02

Well, we can both wish...

Tgger · 01/07/2012 19:51

Yes, I heard about this on Radio 4 the other day. They had on a Danish politician who described the Danish system and said that the British (Cameron?) were very interested in it.

It is quite surprising to us that over 90% of Danish families put their 1 year old into the nursery/kindergarten system so that parents can work. However, they see this as good for the parent and good for the child. The nurseries and kindergartens are staffed in general by highly educated, professional staff who have studied child development etc at University. A lot of emphasis is put on the young child's social skills.

The politician agreed that yes, it needed a lot of money to get up and running, but that this was an investiment in children's and (generally) women's careers.