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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Phonics Test

336 replies

SnowieBear · 29/06/2012 12:47

DS (6) came back yesterday from school with a slip of paper saying that after being tested against the government's phonic test, he had not reached the standard required and will be receiving additional support with his reading.

DS is a rather good reader and has progressed all the way to stage 9 ORT since the start of Y1. However, I am not surprised he didn't do well at the test, as he finds it difficult to decode words he cannot adscribe meaning to. In general, that's not a problem as he is a very wordy kid, but it was always going to be the spanner in the works for the phonics test.

Am I right to be utterly unconcerned about it? (Well, as utterly unconcerned as someone can be that then goes on to post under the primary education thread...).

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Feenie · 30/06/2012 18:45

However, in the pilot children were not told which words were nonsense ones - these had a big alien next to them.

mrz · 30/06/2012 18:46

however teachers on TES are reporting 80% pass rates

Ameliagrey · 30/06/2012 19:33

OP as others have said, decoding is exactly that- applyig the alphabet code to unknown words and being able to "read" ie say them correctly- bar the irregular ones/exceptions.

It's possible for someone to appear to be a good reader but they usually rely on words they know- or use context/picture clues.

The reason- as you will know- that phonics is important is because it is impossible to learn thousands of words by sight alone- there has to be a connection between the sounds and the letters. Many children rely on sight and don't hear the phonemes in words.

Reading and knowing what a word means are two separate skills- someone who is a good reader will be able to read most words, regardless of whether they know what the word means.

This is why dyslexia assessments etc use "spoonerisms" and nonsense words as part of the testing.

You might be disappointed but the good news is your son has been picked up as needing help.

learnandsay · 30/06/2012 19:45

There is always a connection between the sounds and the letters, you spell bird and I tell you about a wee life form which flits between the trees. You write ouch and I know that hurts. It's always been like that. Only now some people think some sounds are better than others. I think that's mostly true in music.

mrz · 30/06/2012 19:54

You really don't understand phonics do you learnandsay

seeker · 30/06/2012 19:57

Am I missing something here? I thought that the whole point of this test wa that the childrenknew in advance that some of the words would be nonsense- or alien names or something like that. To make sure that they could apply their knowledge of reading confidently to new words.

learnandsay · 30/06/2012 20:07

mrz, my reply had nothing to do with phonics, it was mostly about birds.

Ameliagrey · 30/06/2012 20:19

@ learnandsay

KitKatGirl1 · 30/06/2012 20:19

Interesting mention of Flanimals. Nonsense words in a sustained text like Flanimals can give you a real clue as to how we generally pick up syntax and sentence structure. There is something fascinating about children automatically decoding that one made up word is a noun whilst another is a verb, etc, based on positioning in sentence and 'endings' etc (and of course help discover which children don't have that instinctive understanding. Well I found it interesting, anyway, when using it in a KS1 book club...!

Feenie · 30/06/2012 20:41

Gosh, learnandsay - a phonics thread where you appear an make ill informed or deliberately obtuse remarks, how unusual!

learnandsay · 30/06/2012 21:30

What's the matter with you people? Someone said something about words and sounds and I replied that the words always relate to the sounds, they do.

I'm sorry that it's a phonics thread and that some of you guys are fonix junkeys and havent had yor fonix fix for the daye yet, but, this had nothing to do with fonix, sorry.

Maybe next time.

Feenie · 30/06/2012 21:32

I'm sorry that it's a phonics thread and that some of you guys are fonix junkeys and havent had yor fonix fix for the daye yet, but, this had nothing to do with fonix, sorry

What had nothing to do with phonics?

Ameliagrey · 30/06/2012 21:41

learnandsay

try reading it again...

letters have sounds. Of course words have sounds

You are geting confused.

EdithWeston · 30/06/2012 21:56

" Only now some people think some sounds are better than others".

Which people? Which sounds?

breadandbutterfly · 30/06/2012 22:54

Sorry to break up the fight, but does anyone know if all children have been tested by now? My ds hasn't mentioned it and I don't want to bug him but am curious as have heard nothing from school either way. What is the current pass mark?

Feenie · 30/06/2012 22:56

All children had to be assessed in the week beginnning the 18th May, or the following week for absent children. All had to be completed by May 29th.

The required standard was 32/40.

We are sending ours out with reports in a couple of weeks.

TheEnthusiasticTroll · 30/06/2012 23:06

our school sent out a slip last week.

TheEnthusiasticTroll · 30/06/2012 23:16

I would not be concerned OP realisticly but think I may have been a bit miffed if dd had not passed.

If he is reading that well I would just make sure you don actually listen to him, as I did make the mistake of allowing dd to a little more indipendance with her reading books that came home from school and began allowinh her to read in her head or in a differnt room just so I knew she was reading, however one day I was a bit tired and she was being a PITA and asked to read to me and I was aware she was struggling with some new longer words and so not getting the support she needed from me.

I also think for good readers reading can be a bit of a drag as there is the expectation to read well all the time and push push push books, which becomes a bit of a turn off. Not saying this happens for ds but I find myself guilty of it some times. He may have just not been into it on the day too. I dont knowb the pass rate of dds school but I know many of the y1s in yr1/r did not pass and a couple in the y1/2 did not pass.

Feenie · 30/06/2012 23:19

The expected national standard is 32.

TheEnthusiasticTroll · 30/06/2012 23:26

sorry I knoew that, what I ment is I dont know exactly how many passed or failed but know many did not pass.

maizieD · 30/06/2012 23:39

er..it was June, wasn't it, Feenie

mrz · 01/07/2012 07:00

Yes it was June maizieD so completed on Friday.

SunflowersSmile · 01/07/2012 07:44

What concerns me slightly is this is going to become another 'competitive' area.
I know of a couple of schools that sent practise papers/ words home with children that they felt might not make the grade. Bet you there will be work books re this test coming your way soon......

dikkertjedap · 01/07/2012 08:03

Children with good phonics can read nonsense words - PERIOD! If they can't read the nonsense words, then they need help with improving their phonics.

The school told you OP that they are going to give your DS extra help. So I would not worry but at parents' evenings ask for updates on how his phonics is progressing.

I work in a primary school but also work at an international school. I find that English language speakers with good phonics learn other languages much much quicker. The foreign words maybe nonsense words for them (their vocabulary is initially not large enough to know the meaning of all these words) but they can read the words easily. Okay, pronunciation will be a bit different in Italian, French, German, Dutch, but you have a basis to work from.

So phonics is not just important to learn good English, it is also a good skill if you want to learn other languages. Wasn't that what you considered doing with your dc at one stage learnandsay?

Feenie · 01/07/2012 08:09

June, yes. Look at me, I am a month behind! I blame overwork and slight hysteria at this time of year, sorry all.

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