St Albans Primary Schools

[Gingie]

Hi there,

We are moving to St Albans this year in the hope that we will get our 3 yr old into a good primary school and we have found a place to rent on Ramsbury Road however now I am worried about the schools we would get in to from that location.

Does anyone know about the St Albans & St Stephens Catholic school? Also St Peters school? Would we get in from Ramsbury Road location? I checked School GUru and they suggest that based on last year we would get in to St Peters, but everyone says it is such a small catchment area, also if we are catholics and go to church will we get in to St Albans & St Stephens for sure being in that location or is it very over subscribed as well?

I really worry that we would end up in Mandeville school which having spoken to the current tennant of the property whose boy goes there she recommends we avoid that school.

Any help on this would be really really appreciated as we have the flexability to rent near a good school we dont want to pick the wrong area.

Hi Gingie,

We are in a similar situation to you, although you are a year ahead of us.

I don't know where Ramsbury Road is so can't advise on the location or schools but our thoughts in also hoping to get ds into a good school are:

Research which are the good and 'bad' schools in St.A through Ofsted reports (make sure you check past reports as well to see if ratings are consistent), visit as many as we can and word of mouth.

When we've picked three we like, try and find somewhere to rent bang in the middle of all three (if this is possible) so if he doesn't get into our preferred choice then he will have two good other options as 'back ups'.

However, just doing some very brief research on schools in St.A there is a high possibility that none of your three choices will be allocated, so in that case I have no idea what would happen....

Sorry I can't be more helpful, maybe someone will come along who has more knowledge of how it all works, but just from reading your post if you are not happy with the schools near you, you may have to move to get him into the school you want as the catchment rules seem to be very strict.

Why don't you put your postcode into the school finder on the HCC website -
www.hertsdirect.org/services/edlearn/admissions/nearestsch/ and that will bring up which schools are closest to you, give them a call and arrange a visit and go from there.....

Good luck

I know it well...!

Ramsbury is not catchment for St P any more - the last kids to get in there were for a double entry year and that wont happen again. Lastyears catchment was about 300 metres but check with local authority as they will tell you.

Cunningham Hill is next nearest and that is very popular too so unlikely to get in from there. Might through clearing at some point for a place.

Children go to a mix from there - Bernards Heath (though catchment shrunk for that so unlikely), catholic schools (though again very popular so no guarantee). Your source is wrong about Mandeville in that last year it was judged outstanding and has a fab head and lovely children. And as a result you have no hope getting in there from Ramsbury either. But the only good news I can say is that there are two new schools opening - the free school on Hatfield Road though that may be too far, and the new as yet unknown Samuel Ryder primary which hasnt opened yet. St A is massively oversubscribed for primary hence the new schools opening.

Hi newgirl,

Can I take advantage of your knowledge and ask what you would recommend in terms of where to rent and what schools have good reputations.

As you rightly say St.A is so overscribed, so if we move to an area like I outlined in my post to give us a good chance (geographically) to be positioned in between three, what would happen if we weren't succesful with any of those?

Would it be a case of the next closest school to us would then be allocated (if there are free places)? And if they were full, the next closest ones that did have spaces?

Just trying to get an idea of how it all works.....

Thanks very much

That's right - a place will be allocated at nearest school with a space. They really are all good - what upsets parents is driving across a very busy town centre to take their children to school passing three on the way. I know kids in all the schools and they are all good now - the only unknown are the two new ones. Living near bernards Heath, fleetville or wheatfields (all 2-3 form entry) might be more reassuring. And having a private school back up I'm afraid. Places do come up in the two months before sept start date as those with private places release state school places but that is stressful for parents. The town centre schools aboyne maple and St p have so many siblings now (can be 24/30) places you are very lucky to get a firstborn in them.

Thanks very much newgirl,

This is my firstborn, so it will not be a case of the siblings rule for us, but I think that rule must stand and will be very grateful when hopefully ds has a sibling...

My intention was to move to town centre (hollywell hill, fishpool street) and our ideal choices are the abbey c of e, (we worship at the abbey) aboyne, maple and st.p - but do you think is may be just wishful thinking?

Really grateful for the advice....

Also, what do you mean by 2-3 form entry please?

"Living near bernards Heath, fleetville or wheatfields (all 2-3 form entry) might be more reassuring."

If you are a regular at abbey (I think it's a minimum of two years) you should be fine though even so live within half a mile. St michaels might be a good option if you are a churchgoer - lovely area and school but check their rules on their website - both need you to do a personal statement I think.

They have 3 reception classes at fleetville and wheat (2 I think BH) so more places for children. The city centre ones are small (only one class entry)

In fact if you want to live on fishpool St michaels is prob your nearest. Lovely place but check their website for their rules

Lovely - lots to get on with then..thanks so much...

You mentioned about the private school back up - this is something we wouldn't be able to afford, but you said about them releasing state school places, what exactly does that mean, surely not for free?

Sorry for all the questions. Really keen for ds to attend a faith school ideally...

I meant sone families apply for both state and private and keep their state place - then when time gets nearer they give up the state place and whoever is first on waiting list gets it

Thanks for clarifying and really appreciate all your advice.

Thanks Newgirl, you are very helpful. I think we are going to throw caution to the wind and take the place on ramsbury road and hope for the best. I have checked on school guru and based on 2012 we would have got a place as they admitted someone 321m away and we are 294m, so cutting if fine but fingers crossed.

Now I have the problem of getting my daughter into a nursery for september...Is this also something you know about, or do you know of any nurseries around the area we should contact that are good?

Good luck with your move Sweetieaddict, its hard work on top of being a mother!

Don't dismiss Mandeville without seeing it - I second what newgirl said, it is a fantasic school - I know many parents who were allocated Mandeville after applying for St Peters who now say it's the best thing that could have happened and are the school's strongest advocates! The new foundation stage facilities in particular are amazing.

Can't go wrong with the nurseries either - depends what age, school or nursery - but all good/outstanding. Depends how many hours you need etc. Just be aware that they don't automatically feed into the schools. My first went to a private nursery the second a school one as by then knew which school shed go to.

Gingie, there are children in St Peters since the double intake year, I know of a Ramsbury address in Year 2 (double entry year is now year 4).

Also depending on how far down the road you are, you may now have a better chance of getting in, as the rules are now measuring by reference to how far the crow flies, not by public roads (which meant Ramsbury was further away, if that makes sense).

Good luck!

Did you know all the stats for 2012 are available here - shows each school, and how many children got in under each rule.

You can find what all the rules mean on www.hertsdirect.org.uk/admissions.

Some of the faith schools (eg Abbey CofE) will supply you with the stats about their admissions if you ask them; they aren't included on that doc as they have their own admissions rules.

At the Abbey, you have to do a whole bunch of things to prove you are a regular church goer - I think you sign a register when you attend Sunday school there, info about admissions is contained within the pew sheets, so you have to make sure you really are going regularly, or you miss that information, and so on.

As you probably know, St Albans schools are very over-subscribed. Be very very careful with choosing where to live - don't assume that because a neighbour got into a particular school, you will. Especially if their child is a few years older than your child - Herts recently changed the way they calculate distance (from route along roads to as-the-crow-flies), so admissions data from pre-2011 (I think) is no indication of whether you'd get in. Also, don't just casually think that a house is pretty near a particular school so you'll probably get in - check all the data v carefully and try to live as close as possible to your preferred school.

Have you considered the new free school? Called...St Albans Free School I think.

On the Ramsbury Road property being 294m away from a school which took people 321m away - this really is cutting it very fine and you should definitely have a back up plan. Which school is Ramsbury Road nearest?

(Just an explanatory note: the "continuing interest" run was something they did twice this year after the main allocations, to allocate places to people who hadn't got a place at all in the first allocation round, or hadn't got a place they wanted (although that didn't mean you were guaranteed a place in a school you were happy with). They have also added extra classes onto some schools, which were available in some of the continuing interest rounds.)

Hope that all helps!

Thanks for that great link Coronation. It's scary just how strict they are, regarding just how close you have to be...

My dilemma is choosing somewhere to live so if we don't get into our first choice, then we are close enough to second to be 'classed as catchment' and so on and so forth.

It would be very fustrating to rent as close as we could to our first choice, not get in because of oversubscription, and then be put into a school we didn't put on our list at all miles away, then living at the rental property next to the school we so desired..I suppose that sadly is a reality for many though...

Seems the most sensible option is to be as close as we can and hope for the best...

Bear in mind that if a particular school is your closest school, you get priority over people for whom it's not their closest school. Rule 5 is: closest school (with distance used to determine who gets in, if more people apply under that rule than there are places) and rule 6 is just distance from school. So if you don't get into your closest school (ie rule 5), you might not get into your second closest school (applying under rule 6), if that school has filled its places with applicants for whom it's their closest school. Does that make sense?

For example, this year my second-closest school (let's call it School B) filled all its places with siblings and people for whom it was their closest school. So we had no chance of getting a place as it's not our closest school.

However, School B is the closest school to my friend, who lives down the street from me. So she would apply under rule 5, but this year wouldn't have got in, although it's her nearest school, because she lives 600m away and the farthest applicant lived 400m away this year. On this year's data, she wouldn't have got into her second closest school (let's call it School A), because she is too far from that, and would be applying under rule 6, so everyone for whom School A is their closest school would get in before her.

The www.hertsdirect.org.uk/admissions site has a tool where you put in your postcode and it tells you the 6 or so nearest schools to you, and gives you the exact meter-age. That's the figure which they'd use in admissions.

Also, just to say that schools in Herts don't have catchment areas as such - it is all done on distance, so some years (eg with lots of siblings), you might have to live, say, 300m from a school to get in, and other years (eg fewer applicants) you might have to live, say, 400m from the same school to get in.

I should say that all this advice relates to non-faith schools - I don't know much about them as it wasn't relevant to me, and they have their own admissions criteria.

Wow, so worst case scenario if you don't get into first choice, and second or third under the rules you've just outlined, where will you be sent to?

My first choice is abbey (willing to move to the playground if there's a house to rent at the time!) as we are too far in terms of distance atm and it is distance combined with regular attendence at the abbey/cathedral.

However, if we can't get a house to rent close enough, we will have to re-think or choose somewhere that would allow us to be considered for aboyne, maple, st,p or st michael's (wishful thinking I know) but of course the sibling rule would apply there so 30 places, in reality, isn't 30 places is it?

I've done a little research on st.michaels but the ofsted wasn't as good as expected and I think they pool year groups together, so am not really sure. It's then the whole dilemma or faith vs ofsted, which is another issue...

If you don't mind me asking what happened in your situation as you didn't get your second closest, did you get your third closest based on distance?

Yes, worst case is that you don't get any of your three choices. Herts County Council then allocated you a school where there is space. This could turn out ok, or not....

Definitely right to say that 30 places isn't 30 places, because of siblings. Again, all the data is on that link in my previous post - in the schools we applied to, just under half the places went to siblings (eg 26 out of 60 places at our 2nd nearest school, 29 out of 60 places at our 1st nearest school). Look at the "rule 4" column to see how many siblings were admitted (in 2012).

I think you are potentially onto a good thing with being regular church-goers at the Abbey - have you talked to parents there? And definitely get the stats from the Abbey school about how far people lived if they were applying under the church-going plus distance rule (as I mentioned, Abbey doesn't appear on the Herts council stats I linked to as they operate their own rules, as you are aware).

In my case, our choices, in preference order, were (1) our 2nd nearest school (2) our nearest school, (3) our 4th nearest school. We didn't get (1) because no one was admitted under rule 6 this year. We got (2) because it's our nearest school and we live relatively near. Which is all fine, and we're happy.

Here's an article about the situation in Watford this year - as you can see, most people did get one of their three ranked schools, but some didn't. Some of that will be because the applicants were completely unrealistic in their choices - eg, they applied for the Outstanding school the other side of town, which they had no chance of getting into. But some won't!

I think basically you should choose which school you'd like, and then do your level best to live as close as possible (or a very decent way into the max distance from 2012).

Just thinking about this: what you need if you are thinking of a 2nd choice "back up", where the back up won't be your nearest school, is have a look at rule 6 admissions. That tells you how many people got in, for whom it wasn't their nearest school. So for 2012 (using the data on my link above):

Aboyne - 10 siblings, 19 people who it was their nearest school (ie rule 5), no one under rule 6. Max distance 369m

Maple - 16 siblings, 13 under rule 5, no one under rule 6. Max distance 277m

St Peter's - 13 siblings, 17 under rule 5, no one under rule 6. Max distance 321m

That tells you that you only had a chance of getting in to those schools if they are your nearest school, and even then you had to live pretty close. So I would imagine they were turning some applicants away, for whom those schools were their nearest school, if those applicants lived more than those distances above away.

In short, no point listing those schools as your 2nd choice unless they are your nearest school (and you still need to live very close to them to stand a chance).

That's very hepful - so with the above, it's probably safe to just discount rule 6!

Thanks coronation and op - so sorry for completly highjacking this thread!

Fingers crossed, they all end up happy...

Good luck with your choices.

I lived in ramsbury road as a child (number 34) and went to st peters. It's a great school- Mr connel was the head when I was there, although I understand he is about to retire now.

I hope you are really happy in your new house!

Glad it's of use. So afraid that there's not much point renting bang in the middle of Aboyne, Maple and St Peter's (or any other schools which don't take anyone under rule 6), as you'd have no chance of getting into whichever are 2nd and 3rd closest.

Final thought - just checking that you know that there's no fixed catchment in Herts (again, am only talking about non-faith schools - don't know re faith schools) - the "catchment" varies from year to year, depending on the number of applicants and places.

Happy house-hunting!