Phonics?!?

[xxslkxx]

I constantly read posts about phonics, and peoples thoughts (mostly negative) on them. Excuse me for being naieve - I have looked on the internet and it has been explained to me that phonics is a great way for children to learn to read. I have read a few posts where parents are not happy with their childs results - but what exactly is phonics testings/and if seemingly so many people are against it why can we not change them? Sorry if I sound unknowledgeable - I am!

Thanks

This year the government has introduced a phonics screening check for six year olds. Obviously one of the reasons people are opposed to is is the age of the children.

The check is intended to identify those children who may be having difficulties applying phonics to decode words and follows an established method used by educational psychologists to screen for dyslexia and by many schools in phonics assessments.
The media (and a few high profile people) have made a great deal of the fact the check uses pseudo words which is as I said a recognised and effective screening method.

The check takes about 5 minutes working one to one.
I would be very surprised if many parents know the results of the check yet.

Thank you mrz, helps a lot having it explained like that! My own mum (56) knows all about phonics too - so surely this is an established way of learning, but people are not happy about the testing?

Thanks

I wish someone had tested DS at that age that way he might've got the help he needed so much more quickly. He has a photographic memory and once he's been told what a word says he remembers it but he has zero decoding skills. He remember word patterns and not individual letters within a word so can read the word but cannot spell it. Having to decode nonsense words would've thrown up his problems much more quickly.

It is such a shame that people are looking at this check in terms of children 'passing' and 'failing'.

The standard required in the check is based on what children are expected to have learned by this stage in Y1, based on the progression in a number of reputable, well established, succesful phonics programmes. If a child has failed to reach the standard they have 'failed' nothing. If they are children within the normal range of ability (and that includes children who might appear to be very low ability) with no processing difficulties and they have failed to reach the standard it is more likely to be the school which has 'failed' to teach them adequate phonic knowledge and skills.

Children who miss the standard by a mark or two would probably need very little extra help to reach it. Children who missed it by a lot would need far more intensive intervention.

Either way, it is absolutely no reflection on the child and I think it is very unkind of teachers to look at it as a 'pass/fail' situation and to label children, however unconsciously, as 'failures', or to tell parents that their children have 'failed' the check.

Likewise, sensible parents should, surely, be glad that their child's reading problems have been identified and should expect that something will be done about it; either 'light touch' intervention for the 'near misses' or intensive for the 'missed by miles'.

you are right phonics was the main method of reading instruction for hundreds of years but more recently look & say (learning whole words by sight) became popular and even more recently the government promoted something called searchlights (mixed methods which included trying to read words by looking at the pictures and guessing from the initial letter) and some teachers and parents cling to this. learning whole words by sight can appear to give children a quick start but in the long term isn't effective.

In reality when parents are helping kids read at home we use all sorts of methods- the basic method is phonics for us, but we also use picture context, whole story context, and "what word do YOU think would fit here" "it starts with....". When they get a bit more fluent with sounding out, you use the whole word by sight thing, so I don't see where the problems lie with which method etc.... we use them ALL as a matter of course.... and the school has encouraged us to do so....

The testing will hopefully benefit the kids and not be a box ticking exercise, but we'll see how long this one lasts....

Do you ByTheWay? I'm shocked that the school has encouraged this because most don't

Exactly, maisieD - as I understand it, the test is to check which schools are now teaching phonics properly and which ones aren't.

Do parents get to know their child's result? Do we even need to know? Or is it only if it identifies a problem?
Just curious.

The government says parents have to be informed and if there is a problem the school must provide support.

Thank you Mrz.

Don't know much about the test per se as we are in Wales, but DS2 has had a great grounding in phonics at his school (they switched from more mixed methods to fairly exclusive phonics right through the school in September). He is in reception and can sound out words fluently as he reads - long words like commotion or competition. As a school, their whole reading levels have improved remarkably since switching to phonics.

So the main problem with phonics is not phonics themselves or how they are taught, but how people are taking the results? And how the results are released?

Some people think it is a reading test whereas it is a decoding check. It isn't a good media story to say new check will help those children who may have problems later ....
The check is actually a good way to pick up any early difficulties so they can be worked on and in most cases corrected. Some schools have used similar ideas alongside comprehension assessments for many years ... the main problem for many is that it is a national compulsory check imposed by the government.

Yes mrz, we do, and the school held a "reading in KS1" parents session explaining how we could help... the main school "system" is jolly phonics, the one with all the actions, which works great for some kids, but then parents can help to expand their kids' reading through all the other methods - which were explained and we found a mixture was great for our girls.

I have one in Y6 and one Y5 - both are level 5A+ (Y6 daughter has recently done the level 6 reading test) so there cannot be too much wrong with mixed methods... and we have been very pleased with the support given by the school - they have curriculum sessions every year on how to help at home with numeracy and literacy.

My son left primary with a NC level 6 (before the level 6 were scrapped the first time) for reading and huge SEN ByTheWay so forgive me if I don't agree about mixed methods

I have one in Y6 and one Y5 - both are level 5A+ (Y6 daughter has recently done the level 6 reading test) so there cannot be too much wrong with mixed methods

My experience is the same as mrz. My DS in Y6 just sat the Level 6 paper. But he can't actually read. He was 'taught' by mixed methods.

He just has an incredible memory and has remembered every word he's ever been told.

But if you give him a new word he hasn't seen he has no idea what it is. He just mumbles and moves on.

He can't even make a reasonable attempt at it. He really has no idea of phonics at all.

He does however read voraciously. Several books a week. Currently reading John Grisham and Tom Clancy. But he reads them silently in his head. Gets the gist of all of it. But can't pronounce any of the characters names or any other words he doesn't know.

School hasn't actually noticed he can't read.

We still do reading out loud at home every other day, so I know my girls are ok - they still use phonics and sounding out as a major part of their mixed method. So they sound out and have a go if they come across unusual words -both have avidly read Lemony Snickets which test their abilities with strange words and names.

www.rrf.org.uk/archive.php?n_ID=156&n_issueNumber=57

This is an interesting, very short, article in the RRF newsletter about an academically successful student who read by 'shape', and the impact it had on the academic choices she made.

Very good article Malaleuca. That is exactly my DSs problem.

And I know it will cause him problems later, despite him doing very well academically.

A personal essay:Thank you Whole Language

www.illinoisloop.org/anon_thankyouwl.html

Phonics will only test decoding, not comprehension. It's not a reading test. A child who has been successfully taught phonics will be able to read and say words without having a clue what they mean.

Some of our children with english as a second language did better in the test because lots of the english words were 'alien' to them and they didn't attempt to read them with any prior knowledge, they simply decoded them.

Indigo, he can read, he just can't decode. I learnt to read like that - when I first tried to say the word lacrosse I thought it was lack a ruse. Eventually the phonic stuff just clicked ( though I do still read by shape most of the time). Hopefully it will for him too ( I support the teaching of phonics btw, I just didn't get any myself!)

Talking - if DS saw lacrosse he wouldn't be able to guess what it said at all. He wouldn't be able to get close like you did. He would be unable to say the word.

But yes, he can read any word he already knows. I don't imagine his reading will ever get better than it is now, given that he's 11 and he reads several novels a week......

Fairenuff - how on earth can your kids say a word that is in their vocab and not have a clue what it means?

Thats hard if he's 11, by then I had some phonic strategies. On the plus side, I would never have muddled the spellings of words like sea and see- if you don't sound them out they aren't the same. I read v quickly, and to a limited extent can read maths too- simple sums like 3x5 etc to check if they are right without calculating. Will he learn a language at secondary school- I am led to believe that that can trigger phonic awareness in whole word readers.