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Original poster

Did only 30% of kids pass phonics test?

69 replies

MerryMarigold · 20/06/2012 10:28

...when it was carried out last year and tested.

We had a letter from school saying as much, and that although the pass rate of the school should be 80%, they would be happy to hit the 30% score when the test was being tested.

Is that really true? I am no big fan of the phonics test. But I can't believe a test which had a pass rate of 30% when it was being developed, is expected to get a pass rate of 80%? No comprendo.

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FallenCaryatid · 20/06/2012 19:13

One of the problems we found was that our children have been taught and use a range of skills and they weren't allowed a second go.
So they'd sound out a nonsense word, b-l-u-r-s-t and then say burst. Because they were looking for a word.
No matter how many times they were told 'For God's sake, you are 5, read what's in front of you and stop trying to be a smart arse'
they still kept trying to make meaning out of nonsense. To much thinking, not enough robospeak.
Got the pass rate of 80%+, but they should all have managed it.

mrz · 20/06/2012 19:32

FallenCaryatid they are allowed as many attempts as they want but the teacher has to accept the final answer even if it is incorrect and they had made a correct attempt earlier.

mrz · 20/06/2012 19:33

^If a child shows their ability to decode by correcting an incorrect attempt, this
should be marked as correct. However, children should not be prompted to ?have
another go?. If a child makes several attempts at a word, the final attempt should be scored, even if this is incorrect and a previous attempt had been correct.^

FallenCaryatid · 20/06/2012 19:39

Oh, I'm sure next year when they have been trained for the test, all of them bar severe sn will bark at the print nicely.

mrz · 20/06/2012 19:41

It's a pity they haven't been taught to read this year

littleducks · 20/06/2012 21:55

one thing, at dd's school it is 'monsters' not aliens.....any ideas why, are aliens controversial?

Feenie · 20/06/2012 22:00

I imagine that's what they've always called nonsense words, since it's a common strategy, and didn't see the point in changing for the test.

Hulababy · 20/06/2012 22:01

Can't remember the wording on the test - something to do with unknown animal types. Can't remember if it was aliens or monsters or something else. We said aliens int he run up and I bought some shiny alien stickers for each child to have when they'd done their special challenge.

feetheart · 20/06/2012 22:12

DS definitely had 'alien language' words and real words. He said the 'alien language' ones had pictures of aliens by them.
He really enjoyed the test and is now talking in Alien - I expect the rest of the week will see a large selection of his Yr1 class making no sense at all to anyone else :o

mrz · 21/06/2012 06:06

The check guide says "imaginary creatures"

feetheart · 21/06/2012 07:16

Could be they went with aliens at DS's school as they are doing lots of stuff about aliens at the moment. Then again it could be a 6 yr old boy's interpretation of it :)

Original poster
MerryMarigold · 21/06/2012 10:03

So, when you would you get worried at the score? Is below 20 'very worrying'? Is 31 'worrying'? I would anticipate (from the way ds reads at home) that he got around 15 (if you're lucky). I can't even imagine him being able to concentrate on 40. I'm sure he started guessing after 10! I will be very, VERY interested to see...ooh, am so tempted to go and ask.

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Original poster
MerryMarigold · 21/06/2012 10:14

Mrz, with phonics being the only way to 'read', I am so confused. Ds1 had very 'pure' phonics teaching in YR and just didn't get it. Basically, he couldn't read by the end of YR (ie. he hadn't qualified to be able to read a book). This year, they still have phonics groups sessions every day, as well as a 'reading' time every morning where other techniques are used as well as phonics (word recognition, cues etc.) and now he is reading. So they are still 'pushing' phonics as well as allowing kids who don't get it to use other methods and getting their reading 'confidence' up that way. The school are using 'Phonics Bug' now instead of Ruth Miskin.

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mrz · 21/06/2012 18:51

Phonics isn't the only way to read but it is the most efficient way to learn to read and spell for the long term. Of course some children can learn a few hundred (even a thousand) words by sight but then they encounter new words and they haven't got the tools to read it so often they either guess or skip it.
We have Phonics Bug programme and it's very basic so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone teaching tool ... and as I've often said I'm not a RWI fan (although I admit it does get results).

Original poster
MerryMarigold · 21/06/2012 19:21

Thanks Mrz. They have quite an extensive phonics bug programme (it appears) with worksheets and a personalised internet thing where they get books to read online and answer phonic based questions on them.

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mrz · 21/06/2012 19:26

Yes that is what we have but we use it as a supplement not as stand alone

silverfrog · 21/06/2012 19:30

Merry - phonics is a fabulous base for reading, and without doubt should be taught to all children.

BUT sometimes, it can take other methods (and more time) alongside to get children reading.

dd1 (ASD, and a language disorder) has known her phonics solidly since she was 3. she loved the Jolly Phonics stuff, knew all the songs and actions etc. but she couldn't blend or decode. she has been in absolutely brilliant specialist placements since she was 4, and before that had both a home programme which was heavy on (good) phonics teaching and a specialist pre-school placement with huge SALT involvement (again, good phonics teaching).

she is almost 8, and is only now beginning to be able to decode and blend. she had to use other methods to begin with - she was desperate to read, and got very frustrated with not being able to.

I absolutely agree that learning words by sight is not a good way to read, btu for dd1 it was the entry point for her, and was enough to keep her interested in working on phonics alongside being able to read books too.

Original poster
MerryMarigold · 21/06/2012 21:33

That's interesting silverfrog, thanks

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redwhiteandblueeyedsusan · 21/06/2012 22:07

dd is an excellent reader... has a massive sight vocabulary.... reading ahead of her age.... blah di blah.... BUT WWILL NOT USE THE SSODDING PHONICS i have never ever emmitted a strangulated screech of sound it out, ever, oh no

she glosses over a word she does not know and has to be reminded to use her phonics... we are finally getting there... and there have been a few occasions when she has used them unprompted. i shamelessly nicked the idea of aliens and she has been practising nonsense words with any letter strings she has difficulty with.

knowing how to use phonics is essential for unknown words/names that are not yet in her vocabulary so she can't use context/guesses/non existant pictures.

Original poster
MerryMarigold · 21/06/2012 22:49

red,whiteandblue and silverfrod. When my ds sounds out, he often sounds in the wrong order. Is that what your kids do? There is no hope when he is not sounding the letters in the correct order.

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allchildrenreading · 21/06/2012 23:36

MerryMarigold - try the 'notched' card. It's a simple and brilliant way of making such a child can read-through-the-word sound by sound.

www.piperbooks.co.uk/resources.htm

thornbury · 21/06/2012 23:45

I think my class will have about a 50% pass rate. Ten of the children scored very poorly at the end of Reception and are still catching up, others are fab at sounding out and blending but don't know their Phase 3-5 securely yet, so whizzed down the first column and completely flunked the second one.

I also had several confident readers, who turned nonsense words that were one letter away from being real words into the real words they thought they could see, even though they knew the ones with pictures were NOT real words!

maizieD · 21/06/2012 23:49

Get a small piece of card, cover the word and reveal the 'sounds' one at a time in the correct order. Blend them as you go if he can't 'remember' them all at the end of the word for blending. It'll help to develop correct eye tracking as well as force him to get the order of the sounds right. If he's jumping around in the word it'll impair the development of smooth L to R eye tracking. It's amazing how many people forget that this is an essential element of fluent reading...

He might get a bit cross about the slow reveal of the 'sounds' but persist...only abandon the card once he's got the hang of it.

Also, be prepared for him to find it hard work. As far as the eye tracking is concerned it is physical exercise and quite tiring until the muscles are strengthened.

maizieD · 21/06/2012 23:51

Oops, others have posted while I wrote. The 'notched card' is much the same principle.

maizieD · 21/06/2012 23:54

I also had several confident readers, who turned nonsense words that were one letter away from being real words into the real words they thought they could see, even though they knew the ones with pictures were NOT real words!

Will you now be working on reading accurately with them?

I know that fluency is great, but accuracy is pretty important when it comes to things like reading exam questions or instructions...