To Kumon or not to Kumon. That is the question.

[megabored]

DD is starting school in September. Below are the Pros and Cons I have been debating recently.

1. She is bright, so should be okay without extra help in school
2. It is too early to put her through this
3. Kumon is expensive and time consuming.

The Pros

1. It may give her that bit of extra confidence at school
2. Earlier is better as then she can grow with that system
3. Its not so expensive as to be prohibitive.

I really cant decide either way. Please someone help?

seeker it is not a confidence 'boost' that is gained to get a competitive advantage. I agree at this age, it means nothing. Part of it is to increase her writing skills, part to increase concentration, part to increase math skills, part to get some discipline re sitting down for 10 mins. Yesterday I had trouble makin her sit down for 10 mins in the evening but once she did, we wizard through the sheets and the exercises
For drawing etc we have been given. This morning she woke up and the first thing she wanted to do was these sheets. So not sure where this is leading. I may sip after a month if I find that I will struggle with this. Already in 1.5 weeks, she has gone from not recognising the number 10, learning about it. Not to mention all the other things I mentioned earlier. But yes, there are cheaper ways to do this. What I pay for is the motivation the teacher provides. She
Already loves her kumon tutor.

sip= stop.

"she has gone from not recognising the number 10, learning about it."

Would be really interested to know what you mean by this, particularly in light of the article by Skemp I posted that you said you'd read. To what extent has she formed a relational understanding of the concept of "10?"

megabored, every single teacher on this thread has said why they don't like Kumon, and most have given very patient and detailed answers as to why. Doesn't that tell you anything?

Relational understanding of the concept if 10?! !?
I know she understands 10 is bigger than 9 but smaller than 11. I think that's enough for a four year old.

Feenie, no. Even if u look at posts from mrz, the teacher, she says pay for kumon workbooks online, learn by rote. I understand she is against me teaching this boring stuff in a boring way to a 4 year old and the money i am spending on it. Nothing more.

um just thinking that the understanding of 10 is wrong.

10 - if truly understood, means zero units and one set of 1+1+1 etc.

looked at this way the basis of numbers being in a set position takes form, laying the foundation for column calculations.

being able to say that 9 comes before 10 and 10 is "smaller" than eleven really is just rote recall, as in knowing B follows A in the alphabet song doesn't aid reading, but instead layers on confusion as to why A is not "a".

Starting to see why teachers might find Kumon problematic.

Glad somebody is - Megabored, you are doing the online equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting 'la la la'.

www.childrens-mathematics.net/taxonomy.pdf

www.childrens-mathematics.net/news_williams_maths_review.htm

There are so many more facets of understanding the number 10 than are listed above I won't bore you with them...

I consider my reception DS2 to have a good grasp of the number 10.

He knows:
It's between 9 and 11.
It's two fives
It's half of twenty
His ten times table
It's 1+2+3+4
We have ten fingers
There are 6 lots of 10 minutes in an hour
The ten green bottles song
His number bonds up to ten

He has not touched a kumon worksheet in his life. Nor will he. Instead, he has attended school and interacted with his family. I don't understand why people want to make their children do worksheets. Particularly ones which develop such rigidity of thinking.

rose now your post is ridiculous for a 4 year old. She understands ten 1s make the number ten and can now recognise notational how it is written. We have not reached beyond that yet. Remember she is only 4! To expect a 4 year old to intellectually question that is .
As for your note on units, and comparing that to the alphabet sequence?! !!!! Remember she is only 4!!!!
So, shall I unlearn her the alphabet song?!
I won't even bother arguing this point further. Lalallalalala indeed!!

Mrz, thanks for the links. Will have a read tomorrow.

It is not necessary to 'unteach' her the alphabet song.

Just consider that, in the same way as knowing the alphabet song is not the same as reading, recognising that the symbol '10' is called ten is not the same as maths.

Actually I see your point rose that if you left your child to only do worksheets and worksheets alone how this could happen. That the child may not have any concept of how this could apply in real life. However, we are not saying that are we?! We are still counting pebbles on the road and then saying, if mummy had 7 pebbles and you gave mummy 3 more, how many has mummy got? 10? Well done! Now let's see how we write the number 10 ! Gees!

I am beginning to regret creating this thread. I am not saying I am right in kumoning my dd but the arguments you guys come up with for Anti kumon are making me .
Oh dear.

but megabored what rosemaryandthyme posted is exactly what four year olds in reception classes are taught

I think is a child did kumon and could READ the number 33 but did not understand what it means, its the parents fault for not comprehending what the child does not comprehend. For pushing the child through. With the kumon sheets, and additional arty farty stuff and an alert parent, I fail to still see how that can happen.

I am not anti-Kumon.

Just puzzled by why anyone would bother...

Free (or very cheap indeed) resources for doing 'proper' maths with a pre-schooler are all around you ... and your child's Reception class is just ready and waiting to do the same...

I slightly object to following a child's curiousity about number to the point where he can add and subtract 3 digit numbers mentally, and read numbers up to a million, before starting school being described as 'arty farty'. It is proper maths...and furthermore was properly understood...

We have not even reached the addition and subtraction in kumon yet. We have with what I call arty farty stuff to
Differentiate from 'boring ' paper worksheets. In kumon currently we are learning how the values we talk about are written down as well as counting pics of cars etc do that the association of 5+5 =10 is made before it is even done. So we are all taking the same thing. I again at the current kumon level she is at fail to see a problem.
The parent who thinks that if their child can recite 1 1s are 1 table knows and. Understands the concept of the times table is fooling himself. I agree. But I am not that parent.

Ok, I'll be honest here. What I have wanted to say all thread but have supressed until Friday evening after a glass of wine or two is that to me, Kumon seems to be aimed at parents who are insecure about their own intellectual capacity, and are desperate for their children not to show them up by being in the bottom half of the class.

There, I was quite tactful and didn't call the parents -no, Quip, stop- Intelligent parents realise their children don't need Kumon. Perhaps it's not Kumon that makes kids bad at maths, it's the fact that dim parents are more likely to choose Kumon for their children, who will by genetics be more likely to be dim themselves.

I'm not saying that the OP is dim, nor any of the other posters. Just that I feel that there may be a statistical correlation between dimness and propensity to choose Kumon. That's all.

Your child has yet to start reception. You are far from an expert and to say that the anti kumon arguments are confusing you. I haven't got a clue why you started a thread when you haven't listened to a word of advice. You come across just as a classic pushy mum, "I really can't decide either way. Please can someone help?" That statement is a bit of a joke as that's what people have been trying to do, but you appear to have selective hearing bordering on deafness. One word of advice from a mother with children at school. Watch how you tread and what you say at the school gates. Mothers quickly get a reputation and I am sorry to say I would give you a wide berth. Children talk, your daughter will say she does kumon, that gets back to parents and unsurprisingly the massive majority of mothers will form an opinion and speaking from experience it will be far from favourable. In my daughters class the kumon girls also have very high opinions of themselves.....

quip dear, lie down. Too much wine.

What I have not shared and will now without the need for wine as I have the guts to say, without needing alcohol. I think SOME people may be jealous that they are not doing kumon or similar and therefore their child might suffer as a
Result of my child MAYBE knowing her arithmetic!
But people don't come back to me on this one. I have really opened up to be ambushed here!!! 'ducks and leaves to return when things calm down'.

"I think SOME people may be jealous that they are not doing kumon or similar and therefore their child might suffer as a result of my child MAYBE knowing her arithmetic!"

What can I say :o

blue I started the thread as I at the time did not fully know what kumon at dds level was. I did not understand why some mummy's I know we're doing it but not talking about it. I did not understand what the problem with it was. I did not understand why it was bad and still do not. It's not like once a kumon always a kumon. I have always said, if it does not work for my purpose, I will stop. We are only in the first week or so. I have no problem with saying it did not work guys, I was wrong. But I have not come to that conclusion yet.