To Kumon or not to Kumon. That is the question.

[megabored]

DD is starting school in September. Below are the Pros and Cons I have been debating recently.

1. She is bright, so should be okay without extra help in school
2. It is too early to put her through this
3. Kumon is expensive and time consuming.

The Pros

1. It may give her that bit of extra confidence at school
2. Earlier is better as then she can grow with that system
3. Its not so expensive as to be prohibitive.

I really cant decide either way. Please someone help?

Thank you for the link, that games is brilliant.

phonics is the only way that you can figure out new words for yourself...

Is it? So does that mean all of the adults who never learned phonics have developed their own phonics systems? Or does it mean that all of the adults who never learned phonics can't read?

I love the quote - I never heard of the term before I came to mumsnet - I think quite a few mumsnet abilities are non transferable!

First day of Kumon just gone. Things are going good. Child happy after spending 5 mins with Kumon teacher doing 1 short worksheet. Its for me to do now every week. She thought it was fun!

That's exactly what brain research suggests learnandsay. Some people are able to work out the code themselves others need to be taught it explicitly but everyone needs to know it.

mega - I'm glad to hear that you took the plunge. I hope that your DC continues to find it fun.

poosh Thanks. Lets see now. Its not even 20 mins as I thought. It took less than 5 mins to go through 10 sheets with 10 questions. Count the number of dots, elephants, tigers etc. Starting on low level right now.

There is a lot on the papers about Phonics. See link below:

www.guardian.co.uk/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2012/jun/22/phonics-test?INTCMP=SRCH

We use to play board games a lot and it was so funny watching DS play. DP and I would pause, look at the dice and mentally total up the dots. DS would just look at it for a split second and know how many spaces to move his token.

I better shut up before I get accused of stealth boasting :o

English takes similar 5 mins. So far, it seems to give structure to learning then just playing with scrabble tiles.

^phonics is the only way that you can figure out new words for yourself...
Is it?^

Isn't it? How else can you reliably do it? I am open to suggestions! If you have enough words you just know, context clues may enable you to get the jist of what you are reading, but you could still be also be somewhat inaccurate.

So does that mean all of the adults who never learned phonics have developed their own phonics systems? Or does it mean that all of the adults who never learned phonics can't read?

I doubt if there are millions of adults who have never learned any phonics; they may never have heard the word phonics, they may not have spent an inordinate amount of time on it in early years, they may have learned a large body of sight words before they learned any letters, but people who have done NO phonics would be few and far between.

^We use to play board games a lot and it was so funny watching DS play. DP and I would pause, look at the dice and mentally total up the dots. DS would just look at it for a split second and know how many spaces to move his token.

I better shut up before I get accused of stealth boasting^

As it never occurred to me that people might actually have to count the number of dots on a dice, that comes across as stealth modesty on your and you DP's part. (Megabored, think I may be guilty of a stealth boast here.)

I'm declaring myself guilty of stealth boasting too- I can look at two dice and know the total without counting. Am I G and T?

mucho congrats seeker. We all have to be good at something.

@cecily - I'm guessing that you don't see many examples of sarcasm in your part of this planet.

[Note to MNHQ - Isn't it time we had an emoticon for sarcasm so that it is apparent to some MNetters that some silly comment isn't to be taken at face value?]

Dress it up any way you want kumon is just for pushy parents who want their children to be one step ahead of their peers.
In my experience it doesn't work at all. My dd's are at an academically selective school. They joined in yr 3. The kumon girls aren't actually great at real maths, have no advantage and in likelihood have probably done themselves no favours at all. Every teacher my children have had hate kumon. The children gain no real understanding of the application of mathematic principles. Complete waste of time and money IMO.

Tbh most of my Y1s can see the dots of a dice and just know how many there are showing. Very few actually have to count in my class now - they just recognise the pattern. But don't most people, esp adults?

I think that a few games of snakes and ladders would teach a lot. The downside is that parents actually have to play rather than sit them down with a worksheet and do something else themselves!

"Dress it up any way you want kumon is just for pushy parents who want their children to be one step ahead of their peers ..... My dd's are at an academically selective school. They joined in yr 3"

I totally agree. Damn those bloody pushy parents who put their kids into Kumon and "academically selective" schools at yr 3. Oh, that would be you :o

"The kumon girls aren't actually great at real maths, have no advantage"

Your kids are at an academically selective school so of course the kumom kids aren't going to have an advantage since everyone is supposed to be academic in the first place.

A lot of parents choose Kumon because their kids are at an non academic school that isn't challenging their child. In your case, the parents are wasting their money because they are at an academic school and they are still going for extra tuition.

The problem there isn't with Kumon. The problem is with parents who are wasting money on extra tuition when their kids are at an academic school and with parents who put their kids into a academically pushy primary school and then go - Pushy? Moi?

Here is a tip. Look at yourself before making sweeping statements about other people.

PooshTun what huge and studidly inaccurate assumptions. My daughters got where they are on merit alone. They came from a rubbish primary school which is why I took them out. If they hadnt got in hey ho it wasn't meant to be and they would have gone somewhere else. I believe children should be able to cope wherever they are. I am not a subscriber to any sort of tuition as it needs to be carried on throughout their schooling years. That is my personal opinion. If I was going to put my money into something I would look at kip McGrath or explore learning, from what I understand these work with the national curriculum. Kumon teaches children nothing useful, it is a non transferable skill. As soon as words are used in maths any advantage they had is out of the window which is why I strongly believe it is disadvantageous. That applies if you go to a super selective or a poor performing school. Where my children go to school is neither here nor there. I mention it because I believe kumon is full of kids that don't need to be there from the academically able to the strugglers. The parents I encounter used it because they think it gives them an advantage and it doesn't.

PooshTun can you explain what you meant by this ?

We use to play board games a lot and it was so funny watching DS play. DP and I would pause, look at the dice and mentally total up the dots. DS would just look at it for a split second and know how many spaces to move his token.

Several posters have said "but doesn't everybody do that instant thing with dice?" and you said you were being sarcastic.....but I am confused. Can you recognise dice numbers without counting, or not?

"I think that a few games of snakes and ladders would teach a lot. The downside is that parents actually have to play rather than sit them down with a worksheet and do something else themselves!"

Or, here is a wild idea, one can sit the kid down with a worksheet while one is cooking tea and afterwards sit down and play a few games of snakes and ladders. What do you think?

I'll ask the question again. Why do people have this either/or mentality?

During their Kumon days, a typical day consisted of my DCs practising two instruments for about 20 minutes each, play football or netball at their afterschool clubs or simply go round to a mate's house to play. Then they come home where they would play on the Xbox or watch TV or Skype their friends. Tea would be followed by a bath. Afterward we would play card games or play Monopoly or just chat. Read for 15 mins then bed. Somewhere in between all of that Shock Horror! they would do 20 minutes Kumon each.

Yet I often come across this either/or attitude. Your kids do 40 minutes music a day? they would say. How do they manage the pressure? What, they do 20 minutes Kumon as well? Poor dears. They should have time to be children and to play with .. what was that? He is in the school football and rugby team and she is the captain of the netball team?

The more "Shock Horror! 20 minutes a day? What a pushy parent!" comments I read the more I realise how special my kids are.

Is Contrary Day over yet? If it is then I'll stop 'boasting' about my kids and start being self depreciating.

Pooshtun. Probably those that feel this way are the ones that spend from 3.30 onwards with their dcs or supporting their activities. Many parents stay to observe dcs activities and are not really appreciated if they leave. My dd plays 4 instruments, 5 types of dance and we spend most of our time together. Until she is Home ed. I would never dream of just leaving her to get on with stuff after a busy day. Nor did I with ds's they told me how much they appreciated this

OP do you mind me asking how much you are paying for Kumon?

Hi. It is Gbp 30 to register and Gbp 85 for 2 subjects.