DS moving into Y1 in a mixed year group class with Y2 - how does this work?

[Eggrules]

DS is in Reception and will be moving into Y1 in September. 15 of the most able/mature will move into a mixed year group class. The rest of the year will be mixed up/together (not sure).

I understand that teachers/ schools do differentiate work now. Since the start of Reception, DS and a few of his peers, have gone to Y1 for some literacy lessons. The two YR classes mix together really well and also take lessons in mixed groups. This has worked well so far. We have been told that the children will feel a change in gear in Year 1 with regard to the learning atmosphere.

What are the benefits of a mixed year group?
Is this hard on the Y2 children?
Has anybody had any positive/negative experiences?

I understand that DS will be in Y1 next year albeit in a class mixed with Y2.

I was making the point that whilst other (R) parents refer to arrangement as moving up - my DS belongs in Y1 and will not skip an academic year. I would be far happier if he stayed with his own year group and attended specific higher level classes as he does now/ the situation warrants it.

I'm not sure state school allows for DC to move ahead an academic year. Last year my friend deferred her August born DD to start Reception - she will join Y1 (unprepared imho; I digress).

ds's school has mixed classes, as the intake is 45. So every year 15 children are mixed either with the year above or below (not the same 15 every time, they alternate the 15 youngest/15 oldest). Works extremely well - the teachers are experienced, they are great at differentiating work for age groups. This year ds is in a mixed Y3/4 class - he's Yr 4. Last year he was in a straight Yr 3 class, with the 15 'middles' of Yr 3, and next year he'll be in a straight Yr 5 class, with the 15 middles again.

It's nothing to do with ability - it's just the intake. Children who join the school after reception are slotted in wherever there are gaps, so may not be with the oldest 15 even if they have a September birthday - if it was a middle 15 child who left they will stay with the middles throughout.

It widens their friendship group, because kids in the year above and below become familiar - even if ds will never be in a class with the 15 youngest of the year above, he gets to know them as his friends who are the 15 oldest in his year mix with them. He's a July birthday so really enjoys having the chance to be one of the big kids every other year.

The school DS starts in September has three mixed classes - one y1/2, a y3/4 and a y5/6. There are also 2 single year classes per year (75 intake). Once they are in a mixed class they stay there for 2 years - one year as the younger group and one as the older. They are only in a mixed group for a maximum of the 2 years, and aren't forced to be in a mixed group at all.

My question is, if DS is going to be in a mixed class at some point, would it be better to do it early in year 1/2 (surely 2 years is a big difference at this age), years 3/4 which are probably not wildly different socially or academically, or wait until 5/6 and risk him not being 'pushed' in the important year before secondary school? Or refuse the mixed classes altogether? The head said she uses her best teachers for the mixed classes and they learn valuable social and empathy skills which makes them appeal, I'm just not sure when is best.

Sorry to hijack - didn't want to start a new thread on a very similar topic!

Cuppa Not a hijack, jump aboard. In your case, I would ask the head/teacher for information for evidence regarding what difference the school thinks it makes.

I think it depends on the school. If the situation was as described by Edam I would be very happy. The misconception held in my DS's school is that dc move or or down (bad) rather than mix (great). This situation is made more complex by a few very competitive parentzillas.

I assume that misconception is held by the parents, not the school, though! So it shouldn't make a difference unless you care what stupid people who don't understand the system say?

Our school has always had mixed years 1/2 and 3/4. There is no criteria other than making sure the classes have an equal mix of girls, boys, behaviour, ability.
Work is differentiated, so a lower ability (say) year 2 may be working with higher ability year 1's and vice versa. It gives children with higher ability a good chance to progress.
For instance, in the year 3/4 class I work in a high ability year 3 girl works with the high ability year 4's.
The children don't seem to have a problem with it.
Parents are used to it.
Years 5 and 6 are separate, mainly due to SATS.

eggrules my DC is in similar situation and I have thought about asking the following additional questions (apologies if they are not relevant as our situation includes the addition of an extra bulge class so KS1 will increase by 30ish extra children):

Will additional resources be available for the additional children (books, number squares etc etc).

How will PE and extra curricular activities be managed.

Will sessions be lead by a teacher, TA or another type of adult (I know of a school which split two teachers across three classes- they led key sessions but the class was not always led by a teacher).

I am speechless that some schools 'hold back' some children .

At DS's school they are doing mixed year classes but it has already been said that they will not be segregated by ability or age and the sorting will be even across the board. With the exception of trying to keep them with a best friend (if they have one that is) then it should be a fair spread across the board. The head said that the spread of levels (or sub levels IIRC) across a 1/2 or 3/4 class is only a tiny bit bigger than in a single age class.

They will be in ability groups for numeracy, reading and writing (presumably like jamdonut has mentioned). I think it should be fine TBH. DS is friends with everyone and the kids in the older years so he's not worried with the idea.

Obviously I may well come back moaning in Sept saying what a balls-up it is!

I am a bit aghast at some of the examples on here! Our mixed classes are just like an "ordinary" class, except that there is a wider age range! As I said before, children are grouped according to ability, not age. It works well.

At the end of the year the older children move "up" (i.e year 2 to a yr 3/4 class and year 4's to year 5). The remaining children are often re-distributed between the classes and the new year 1's or yr3 slotted into those classes. No 'holding back' or dividing classes by birth dates !! ( )

jamdonuts - the birth dates thing is just a way of distributing numbers of children across three classes - e.g. straight Yr 3, mixed Yr 3/4 and straight Yr 4. It's nothing to with the level of work they get, it's just a way of ensuring that they have a group that they stay with throughout the school, rather than being jumbled up completely every year. If you have a 45 intake (thanks to the ruddy LEA), then dividing them into 15 oldest, 15 middle and 15 youngest is just a simple way of composing classes. So this year ds's 15 are mixed with the year below, and next year his 15 will be mixed with the middles from his year.

and the mixture between classes has nothing to do with ability, btw. There is setting for maths, but that happens across the whole cohort, not within single classes.

I have a DD coming to the end of reception soon. Historically a 45 intake but PAN for September will be 60 and they are extending. Last year they planned/started with an intake of 45 over 2 reception only classes. Numbers have crept up in both classes so where the previous had a year 1 group and a year1/year2 mixed group, there will now be enough pupils for 2 straight year 1 classes

but

they have not yet finalised what the teaching groups will be. They may (according to DDs class teacher this week) have all mixed year 1/year 2 groups instead, or some other combination, maybe 2 straight groups and 2 mixed classes.

I suspect DD would benefit from working in a mixed group for year 1 as she seems quite able and a little competitive TBH but they already move children about to work with other year groups for some subjects anyway

owlelf I hadn't even thought of the questions you have raised. I also don't know what happens beyond next year/juniors.

I can see a logistical benefit regarding space and teaching staff. I don't see the benefit of a mixed and larger class for the DC.

YR have been split into ability groups since three weeks after they started school. They mix with the entire YR and move up to Y1 as is necessary. The groups are fluid and change as needed.

The decision has been made and so we'll make the best of it. I look forward to getting information from the school and will raise my concerns about the moving up/kept back issue.

In my (limited) experience (2 DC) this works well for the set that always goes up to the next level, but is not great for the ones who are always held back. IME, it is always the same people who are held back.

So if you are doing Y1 with the yearRs, then do Y2 with the Y1s, then Y3 with the Y2s, so always a "step behind".

My DS went from being a year behind to being 2 years behind in the space of 3 years.

Can't blame this system for that, but it surely did not help.

My other DS, who was in the "top set" thrived as he was able to move up to tables of the year above, and it allowed him to "be ambitious" and move up.

so.....it works for half the kids I'd say!

Chandon I have no idea what happens next year. Will DS move from Y1/2 to Y2/3 with the same DC or will he move into a new mixed ability group? The only thing I know is that he will not finish Juniors a year early.

I think he may do well academically next year but what about the wider socialisation? I understand that children will pick up on the strengths and weakness of other children. My DS already knew about a mixed year class and that he was 'really smart' (not my words). The terminology is all wrong.

I arrived at school this morning, with my list of questions regarding the new bulge class and mixed year groups at DS's primary (we received a letter about this last friday which said to speak to form teacher or HT re. any concerns)

I waited patiently.

I explained that I appreciated that 'now' may not be a convenient time, but I had some concerns and would like to arrange a time to discuss them.

I was told "you really do have nothing at all to worry about", in a very assured, cheerful tone.

I mumbled "ah...., yes but...., no but...., ok then...., thanks...."

I'm now really annoyed with myself, have no answers, and feel like I am making a mountain out of a molehill all at the same time. I run a medium sized company and thought I knew how to be assertive.

I do really like DS' formteacher, but made a rubbish job of making myself heard. Just as well I didn't get the position of Parent Governor .

(Apologies for the thread hijack)

DD was in Y2 when the school implemented mixed classes. There were three classes across Y1 and Y2. One class with Y2 children, one class with Y2 children and one mixed class.

The school were very clear that academic ability was not the driver for deciding who went into which class. They also looked at friendship groups, personalities, chronological age etc.

The school has a 3 year rolling programme of topic subjects , so no child repeats the same subject matter and the teachers differentiate so that the children work through all their objectives regardless of whether they are in Y1 or Y2.

The classes break into smaller ability groups for specific topics such as literacy and numeracy. For these groups they are grouped by ability rather than academic year.

TBH it works fine. There was a very heated meeting when the school first raised the idea of going down the mixed class route, but the school have delivered every single thing they promised.

I wish we were being the chance to have a meeting, even a 'very heated' one!!

We have just been told that KS1 will have SN extra class and that the classes will be:

1. R
2. R
3. R&Y1
4. Y1

5.Y1 6.y2 7.y2

We haven't been told how classes will be decided, or the proportion of each year in each class. We also don't know yet which class our children will be in, how they propose to fit in an extra classroom or anything.....

Piprabbit- your experience sounds positive. I hope ours is similar, we have been given no information or assurances though.

It's such a terrible shame when schools simply fail to communicate with their parents. Such a small thing which can make such a difference to the stress and worry for parents, and have such a huge impact on the trust and relationship between staff and parents. .

owlelfMaybe the formteacher isn't the best person to answer your questions? I would ring the school secretary and ask for a meeting. I would say you have specifics questions regarding the letter dated 15th June 2012 and would like to make an appointment to discuss them.

This is a new bulge class and I bet a lot of people have a lot of questions.

Piprabbit is right about communication. With only five weeks of term left, there has been NO information from school about a mixed year group. It may be that this is a formula that works and school has no concerns It has been a long time since I was at school and I have no experience of mixed year grouping. The speculation (regarding moving up/down) isn't right and needs to be addressed.

I am great of thinking of the right retort - just after the nick of time. I am hoping my questions will be answered; if not I need to talk to someone. I will be armed with an actual list.

My DSs school has a 45 intake so has a mixed Y1/Y2 which he's currently in. My DS is twice exceptional so I privately thought he would do best with the Y2s particularly because he would be able to improve his social skills by observing his more mature peers, but I did not voice this to the school as I trusted their decision whatever class that might be.

He has thrived in the mixed ability class and has not lost the identity of which class he is in. What I can't say is whether DSs improvement is based on this mixed ability or whether it's because his teacher is fabulous - relaxed, tolerant and inventive. I suspect the latter and I want to keep her for all of DSs schooling.

Googol What does twice exceptional mean?

What will happen next year? Will DS move into Y2 or stay in the same class?

Next year's classes: 2 x EYFS classes
3 x y 1/2
3 x y 3/4
2 x y 5
2 x y 6

Current year : 2 x EYFS
4 x y 1/2
4 x y 3/4
2 x y 5
2 x y 6

The older EYFS move up to year 1. The part-timers become the new full-timers.
The current year 1 become yr 2,mixed with new yr 1.
Y2 move to y 3/4 class...the current y4 move to a yr 5 class.
Y5 move to y 6 and year 6 move out!!

The classes are shaken up on each move, usually to do with behaviour and ability, though we try to salvage some friendship groups.
But no "moving up or down"!

...When i say older EYFS I mean the full-timers.

jamdonut How is EYFS split? We have nursery from age 3. Children start school full time in YR in the academic year they turn 5 - between 1st September and 31st August. They all start full time in September (thank goodness).