Please help- place withdrawn!

[StellarforStarofAfrica]

DD has had her place withdrawn for our 1st choice school, on the basis that her foster sibling won't be starting in their nursery until January, and not September.

They have just picked this up now due to an internal audit, and for the last 6 weeks, we've been telling her she's going to the school attached to the nursery she's been attending.

I am devastated. Not only has she missed the first appeals date, she is now probably at the bottom of the waiting list, all because of an admin issue at the admissions office.

The admin officer I have spoken to was very lovely, and explained all the protocol to me, but I am still fuming! Ther is NO WAY she is going to go to the school they have allocated her, she wouldn't last a week there, so it's either get through to first choice on appeal (I have no idea how likely this is) or home ed (gulp) which I have no idea of how to do.

Has this happened to anyone else? If so, how did you get through it?

Sorry this is a bit of a stream of consciousness, but I am really shocked and upset.

a step closer:

www.education.gov.uk/inthenews/inthenews/a0077550/new-admissions-code-more-places-in-good-schools-a-fairer-and-simpler-system

last sentence before 'notes for editors'

"The new codes will not affect the next admissions round (for entry in September 2012) but will take effect for the September 2013 intake."

As they have sent us to appeal, it says on the gov website the 2012 appeals code applies. If we appeal we're then judged on the 2012 ruling, which means we're in trouble? I think.

So is they key to not appeal yet (we haven't even got the letter) and keep going for reinstatement- which she has point blank refused, saying it was her decision to make.

I don't think you will be disadvantaged in the way you describe if you do end up going to appeal, the Appeals Code is used by panels to judge how an application has been handled against the prevailing Admissions Code, which for you is the 2010 one.

from a previous post by admission

"We are currently in the slightly bizarre situation that whilst both new codes for admission and admission appeals came into force on 1st Feb 2012, the admission code is only appropriate for September 2013 applications. So we have to use the old school admission code but the new school admission appeal code!"

Hopefully an expert will be along shortly!

So, presumably you need to avoid going to appeal. Sounds like she's advising you to do that so you'll "fail" under the 2012 appeal code. But you need to get them to re-instate without appeal, which should be under the 2010, despite what she says. I don't think it is "her decision to make."
But hopefully admission, panelchair or prh47bridge might be able to confirm that.

Oh, it's all getting a bit mind boggling!

I'm going to get dinner sorted and i'll be back later.

Thanks you guys, I have no idea where I'd be without you!

It's as Admission said on the other thread (quoted above).

It's important to distinguish between the admission code and the admission appeals code. The admission itself is still governed by the old code, but any appeal about that admission will be heard under the new code.

Where there has been an error - and now I'm talking about the mistake of withdrawing the place after weeks rather than days - it ought to be corrected without going to appeal, but many LEAs insist on the appeal. I would expect any appeal panel to take a dim view both of the LEA's error and also of their insistence on using the wrong code.

OP i wouldd be seeking legal advice at this point now. You need a letter from a solicitor or whatever.

Legal advice from a solicitor who is not a specialist in education law can do more harm than good!

Thanks, Panelchair. I didn't realise at the time that they were actually two different things- d'oh.

She was absolutely, positively 100% adamant that admissions for this year are governed under the 2012 code, to the extent where our conversation went like this-

me- but the relevant code for sept 2012 is the 2010 code
boss- we are using the 2012 code
me- but that's not the relevant code
boss- we are using the 2012 code
me- the relevant code for admissions in 2012 is the 2010 code. you might be using the 2012 code, but it's the wrong one.
boss- we are using the 2012 code.

Seriously, it was like a broken record. She did, however, state again that nothing I said on the form was a lie, so the more times she says that, the better.

Frankly, I don't want to go to appeal, and I don't believe I have to; her place should be reinstated. I don't want to get arsey, but is there any mileage in speaking to her boss about it, because somebody somewhere should be able to do something.

I'm just waiting to get the paperwork tomorrow because I feel like I'm banging my head bloody against a brick wall.

How can she tell me the same thing over and over and over again, when it's blatantly not true!

Well are there none like that then?

I was thinking that, House, but the HT gave me a number for a lady who helps with admmissions and appeals, so I am going to try her tomorrow morning and see what she says.

We can access a certain amount of legal advice for free as well, so I would hope the least they would be able to do is point us in the direction of an Educational law specialist.

A solicitor's letter may get the LEA to deal with this with more urgency. Or it may make them more defensive and more likely to dig in their heels. OP can judge that better than we can.

My point, though is that some high street solicitors don't have much knowledge or experience of education law and can make matters worse by missing the point, confusing the issue and going off at a tangent. So, if OP does want to get legal representation, she needs to choose her representative with care. That's all.

Everything that I know says that the admission code that is to be used for admission for September 2012 is the 2010 Admission code. As others have pointed out on the Dept of Education site it says that the 2012 admission code is for admissions in september 2013. The whole reason why it had to be enacted so early (feb 2012) was because there has to be consultation on any changes to the 2013 admission policies of the LA by April 2012, so that all the information comes out in September 2012 for parents to make preferences for SEptember 2013 entry.
I would go back to the LA in writing and say to them that it is clear from the DfE site that the 2012 Admission code refers to September 2013 starts and that the 2010 Admission code refers to SEptember 2012 starts. As the 2010 admission code does not allow mistakes made by the admission authority to be remedied by removing the place you require them to reinstate the place within 7 days or you will be reporting the LA to the School Adjudicator.
To be clear any admission appeal will be under the 2012 admission appeal code but it is what is in the relevant admission code that the appeal will be based on. In my opinion that is the 2010 admission code but the only people who can legally tell the LA what they should be doing is the School Adjudicator.

just posting to mark my place, you are in the right, they have made a mistake and they cant withdraw the place, you dont need to go to appeals, this isnt an appeals case.

they obviously think you are just going to accept this and arent prepared for the fact taht you have the right information and know they are wrong!

email and write and document everything! hope you can get some support via the ht and i would seriously consider telling them you will go to the press etc. bet they are shitting themselves and were counting on you just accepting their word as final! good luck :)

and yes talk to her boss, insist on talking the the 'top dog' so to speak, makei would arrange a meeting and make sure you have copies of all the relevant paperwork etc that shows you are right, present it with a letter saying you want her place reinstated or you will be going down the legal route, they are wrong!

Hmmmmm...

I'm not sure about legal advice. I really don't think they want to back down on this, and would probably dig their heels in.

I don't want to be cowed into just shutting up, but I don't see where else I can go with this.

I'm not bothered about going to the panel and speaking in front of them, the paperwork doesn't intimidate me or anything, but the uncertainty of everything is what my problem is, that and the fact that they think I'm stupid.

Listen I have lurked and posted on thread. I completely get where you are coming from.
How can the official bodies be wrong?
Deep breath, stomach in, boobs out, take them on because they are wrong and you (and the knowledgeable MNetters) are right according to the policy/legislation.

Believe in yourself. (And us!).
If nothing else question what has been brought up until you are satisfied.
Good luck.

Admission I am currently composing a rather long e-mail summarising all the points you guys have put forward, with the relevant web links in, and I am going to send it to an independent admissions advisor (apparently our county has such a thing!) and see what they say. They might be able to get someone else to have a look at it.

I still have time to get the appeal in if I have to, and I will appeal because this is all getting a bit silly now. It seems to me that they are so blatantly trying to fob me off it's getting ridiculous.

Both days they have called after 4.30 and I can only wonder if it is to cost me time that I could be using to "gather my case" and speak to other people.

Right, I'm off to get my bits together and hopefully will have another update tomorrow.

silly billies, mn is open all night!

still following and wishing goodluck.

stellar, we did in fact use a barrister who specialises in school appeals etc when we went to appeal for DD-not quite the same situation as you. Not sure where you are, but he travels. But he was really good and had all the facts and figures at his fingers tips as it were.
If you want his details then just pm me and I'll give you his number, email and website. He actually trains all the people on the panels etc too, so was worth it for us-he got DD in. Oh and our friends DD, and another friends DS (all different years).

They really need to back down as Admissions has put it in a way that nobody can argue with. Once they get that in writing OP they must back down surely! I understand your reticence about legal advice...I just thought that before appealing, it might be worth a try....

I've pm'd you, Wheremymilk

House- I reckon I'll take advice, I just need to make sure it's tip top, bacause these are tricksy hobbits, I think!

Yes...the best you can get for sure!

If they refuse to back down when you send them the links etc in your email, can you send them another email saying you need the following information to prepare for your appeal (which they have to help you with):

1. Please confirm the info I provided on the form was not misleading (etc etc)

2. Please could you confirm that you are basing your refusal to reinstate my daughter through the application of the 2012 admissions code to my case.

3. Please confirm you are disregarding this statement on the Dept of Ed website ""The [2012 code] will not affect the next admissions round (for entry in September 2012) but will take effect for the September 2013 intake.") when deciding which code to apply.

These three statements (and a print out of the relevant info) will make it very straightforward for the panel to reach their decision.

I don't think you need a legal representative - you are not dealing with shades of grey here where a lawyer might be better at convincing the panel on the balance of probabilities. It's a black and white, open and shut issue - 2010 code or 2012 code, and you are just as capable at presenting the facts to the panel as anyone else.

As someone else pointed out, sometimes LEAs prefer these cases go to appeal rather than put the error right themselves, because they can then tell concerned parents/schools that the reason the class has 31 children is due to an over-zealous appeal panel - 'sorry, it's out of our hands' etc.

I haven't fought a schools appeal but i would go straight to the schools adjdicator. It is set up for exactly this.

I would be preparing documents detailling exactly what they have done, spelling out all of the legals from admissions. Including the stress they have put upon you and dd. I would be popping down to the council offices to hand deliver a copy of this letter.

The best wAy to deal with inept, useless people is to bypass them. It is not your mistake. You have given them the opportunity to put it right, hey have foolishly not taken it.

Just seen post above mine, i would without doubt send that across.

They can not ignore your comments. It will set up any appeal very well.