How much holiday do you think teachers really get?

[Fairenuff]

I was reading a thread about inset days and inevitably it led onto the amount of holidays teachers get and I was wondering whether Joe Public thinks that the teachers get the same number of days off as the children?

Alright, they are not actually in the classroom, but the teachers I know all work during holidays (and also evenings and weekends). My estimate would be that they plan a fortnight summer holiday with the family and the rest of the time they are planning, assessing, marking, report writing, etc.

Perhaps they should be renamed 'child holidays' rather than 'school holidays' to help clear up the confusion?

It is very, very different to when your mum was a teacher! It's changed immeasurably over the last 20 years.

A 2000 Health and Safety Executive report found that teaching was the most stressful occupation in Britain. It may or may not have got more stressful since then.

In 2005, the Journal for Managerial Psychology carried out its own study of 26 occupations and found teaching to be second only to paramedics and ambulance drivers in terms of stress levels. I guess in would depend on the other 24 occupations though.

The Office of National Statistics reports an 80% increase in the number of teachers committing suicide between 2008 and 2009. That means that instances of suicide are now 30-40% higher than the national average.

The Teacher Support Network in 2008 found that nearly 50% of teachers left within 5 years - and workload was cited as the many reason for their decision.

I have never heard of gym memberships as a perk in a job (but in fairness it could be industry specific).

All the staff at my local gym get full peak membership - this includes the creche staff and the cleaner.

Conoco head quarters used to be in town and there was a gym in the basement and fine dinning along with a luxury canteen that was subsidized. They moved out elsewhere a while back, but oil is still a business with money to spend on staff

I don't know anyone with a company car but know a lot of people who get mileage for travel and they do not get anywhere near the amount to cost them to run a car and pay for petrol for the trips they make

I would say that most teachers probably take no more holidays than other jobs. Which is as it should be. Because if teachers really only did the hours in the classroom and not a lot more they would be part timers compared to other jobs. They should not expect to have 13 weeks holiday a year or finish at 3pm for the day, no other full time job offers this.

As I said earlier I think I get about 24-28 days holiday a year.

Feenie - so why is it that much more stressful now than it used to be? The class sizes used to be larger and TAs were unheard of (there was one 'helper' for the whole school) ; there always was lesson prep, marking, report writing. What is it they're doing to teachers now that didn't apply then (I'm not being sarcastic... I genuinely don't understand what's changed so much - please educate me )

Well Grimma, one big thing is data. We have to provide a full set of data - working at level, new target level, predicted level, behaviour, effort etc. every six weeks for every pupil. I teach over 300 pupils. Each pupil has to know their target level, current level and how to reach target all of the time, which means a lot more assessment than ever before, a lot more marking and a stupid amount of administration.
There is constant change to curriculum, which is a fairly recent thing. You have to teach to a completely new set of rules virtually every year, so exam board requirements etc. have to be learned, and you can no longer always re-use resources.
Ofsted has put a lot of pressure onto SMT and teachers. You can no longer get away with having the odd lesson sitting down doing worksheets. You have to prove that you are jumping through all the hoops every lesson.
A big part of our job these days is the SEN side of things. Most SEN pupils are now in mainstream education unlike before, and each will have individual, documented needs. In years gone by these were much less of a priority for schools. Lessons have to be tailored to fit need, and a lot of administration takes place around this.

A lot has changed in teaching over the past 20 years. Much more than I've outlined above. I know many teachers who have worked through that progression, and I have never heard one disagree with the notion that work loads have increased dramatically.

Grimma, I've been teaching full time with two one term breaks for maternity leave for almost 30 years. The job I started in has changed beyond recognition and the stress is quadrupled, the paperwork has more than octupled!
So yes. I may be a contemporary of your parents and if they were still doing it they would be screaming at you that it is no longer anything like the job it was.

I started with me, 34 children, a blackboard and a set of mathsbooks from the early 70s. The idea of sophisticated resources was to use different coloured chalks on the blackboard.
My weekly plan was a sheet of A4 paper with activities on it, and the evidence that I was a good teacher and that the children had progressed was demonstrated by the fact that they knew how to do stuff and could demonstrate it.

But does all thsi stuff we do actually make any difference? After all exams are meant to be easier now aren't they?

Does it make a difference that every child knows exactly where they are every lesson. I think if things need to be improve it would actually be better to slow things down a bit. IME there is little opportunity to reflect or embed things properly. Sometimes learning is abut sitting and reflecting as well as actively doing, and that is what has gone. Lip servic is paid to it, but it is not really there

Sorry about missing letters, keyboard knackered.

They should not expect to have 13 weeks holiday a year

I am not paid for those 13 weeks - therefore I damn well expect to have them! Well, most of them. It isn't an unreasonable expectation to have time that you aren't paid for, amothersplaceisinthewrong.

My esteemed colleagues here have done a good job of explaining why it is so different, Grimma, and I am too tired to elaborate! Luckily, the one thing that hasn't changed is the children, and the pleasure that comes from seeing those little lightbulb moments we see every day.

Thanks. OK, sounds like the bods responsible for some of the beaurocracy need shooting. Its not necessarily 'data' that's the problem per se. I think most professions - mine for sure - have had a huge increase in 'data' in the last few decades - more performance metrics, more rigourous 'QC', more detailed planning etc etc. But while introduction of such systems engender some grumbles initially, they should facilitate doing a better job and this should actually lead to a less stressful environment. Otherwise why have them?

Amotherlace I feel quite justified in taking my 13 weeks holiday. They are a condition of my employment and I have worked incredibly hard for them .

I do not jump through lessons every lesson and I am not expected to. I woud say that on a five lesson day I may be outstanding for three of the five and good for the other two.

You need to pace yourself, some teachers do create stress for themselves.

Jump through hoops

Orangeandlemons what if exams are not easier, but teaching it just better?

I have free gym membership with my teaching job. It's called 84 stairs, often carrying 60 books.

I love my job, and I think working with children is fantastic. Days are never dull, and you can make things as fun as you want. The 9-3:30 bit is the easy part. I don't find it stressful being in the classroom; it's the rest of it that gets to me. Like spending my Friday nights writing reports, for example.

The GCSEs and A Levels I teach are harder than the ones I sat 30 years ago.

I teach better than the teaching I received and I find that my teaching improves each year as I get to know the spec.

As a student I never looked at past exam papers, I never peer or self assessed, I never had a revision guide, I never had revision classes never mind differentiated ones. Hence my students do better than they would have done 20 or 3O years ago.

It was meant to be sarcastic

Teaching is much better than when I was younger. One teacher just to flick ash at us!

But I do feel that what is happening now, is ever decreasing circles. More and more happening faster and faster, and more and more ridiculous and for what? Is it all required? EG. I agree withwhat I am supposed to write, but do feel at a loss of how to ahieve it sometimes: A lesson should cater for AEN, GT, FSM, different learning styles, looked after children etc etc. But I only see them once a week for less than an hour. I also have to include a variety of activities, starter, middle bit, end bit, peer assessment etc etd.In less than an hour? I feel exhausted looking at it. I AGREE with it, but I wish someone would explain how to implement it in the time allowed. This is x 20 or so different lessons in a week.

NiceHamione - It is not just the teachers who create the stress. My HT is now dropping in for unannounced observations at any time. Every lesson is supposed to be outstanding. (I only wish that I really thought that my lessons ever were that. I do try. )