Do I need to consider private schooling or keep hassling the school?

[finefatmama]

This is a rather lengthy one so please bear with me.

DS2 5yrs attends reception in an oversubscribed catholic school (DH's preference not mine) but I don't think the school is working well for him.

Since starting reception, his teacher has complaining about his refusal to spend 80% of his time playing. He sneaks back indoors to turn on the interactive whiteboard or computer thus refusing to follow instructions. He's a september baby and bigger than most of the kids so he plays roughly with them (he also does martial arts) etc. He eventually got the class reward cuddly toy because he didn't have to be told off over the course of the day.

He now thinks of himself as a naughty kid but claims he can't help it (I don't believe that). During parents evenings, she usually has odd feedback ('he can read the whole word but can't sound out the individual parts when I ask him to break it down', 'you haven't taught him x' - often said smugly, 'when I left the class to go for my lunch he scattered the contents of my filing cabinet which I forgot to lock', 'he can count to hundred but most kids learn this by rote at home and don't know what these numbers mean so that doesn't mean he's brilliant', 'no he can't be extended because I have 30 kids to deal with and some don't even know the alphabet which is a priority', 'I know he's bored but I can't give him more work as it HAS to be 80% play for all our children', 'He has poor social skills which is why he won't go out and play' - very smug look). He once had a supply teacher who allowed him to work on the whiteboard and rewarded him for doing a correct sum which resulted in a negative number but according to him, his regular teacher would have told him off.

We have been working with him at home and he has just started year 3 maths and is currently reading Through the Looking Glass and Horrid Henry. We were ok with doing the extra work at home and trying to convince him that the teacher probably didn't mean that he's no good.

Most of the supervision is done by dad who works 9.30am -2.30pm about a mile from home. Fortunately and unfortunately following events at work, he's been promoted to a full time role in London and his current role is no more. We are now very concerned about leaving him to the mercy of the school. They have't been v helpful and have hinted that they are oversubscribed anyway and will have some kids waiting to take his place. our local authority has a shortage of primary school places already so a transfer is unlikely. If we keep fighting the school, we may end up making enemies instead of gaining allies.

We are now wondering if we should tighten our belts and pay for a good independent school where he would be taught at the right level, have access to sports activities, music lessons (dad currently takes him to flute lessons as the school dont allow for under 8s to learn instruments) etc. Or am I just romanticinsing the private school idea?
What other course of actions can anyone advise that we take to ensure a good education? We moved here to get DS1 into a very good special school and I'm not sure if we can keep the special school place if we move to a nearby LEA.

[mrz]

I'm assuming they think discipline which is a commonly held belief

[IslaValargeone]

I'd be wary about a small village primary, as they often have even less resources.

[EBDTeacher]

What do you mean by under developed social skills seeker?

Have you dx's the OP's son with social impairments? Blimey, you got over there quick to do your observations on him.

[learnandsay]

I think backchatting the teacher, ignoring rules and chucking school property on the floor is all fairly undeveloped.

[seeker]

No- I was quoting another post who said a child with under developed social skills would be beet in a boy's school.

[seeker]

Better not beet,

[diabolo]

Isla I was just thinking in terms of the smaller classes, the one near my home has a reputation for being very caring of its children and can focus attention on those requiring a bit more help to "fit-it" as it is not anywhere near over-subscribed.

Whereas the Prep school is more demanding in terms of behaviour, right from the start. It doesn't select academically, but the "taster" day each new child has to attend is definitely to assess behaviour, rule following, ability to get along with prospective class-mates etc.

I'm not sure private is the right route for this OP/DC. Although I am a big fan of it, it isn't a "fix all solution" for everybody.

[learnandsay]

The child is only five! If the parents believe in rule-following I'm sure they can teach their son. (I guess there's only a problem if the parents don't believe in it, but follow more of a belief in the value of arrogance.)

[EdithWeston]

I note OP says this is DS2. Does DS1 go to the same school? If so, what do you know of its KS1?

Private schools have to follow the EYFS, but it came in for them some years after the state sector and some are definitely more formalish. That is not however the same as being superior, and you may well find there is less tolerance of disruption.

I'd say the issue here seems to be that he is disruptive (leaves group, fiddles with expensive kit, empties cupboards), has difficulty with peers, and does not demonstrate skills his parents know him to have in the classroom (eg shows lack of phonic awareness when asked specifically to demonstrate that). He also seems unaware of his impact eg when answering back (not uncommon at his age, though). That does suggest quite a raft of things that need to be tacked, if the aim is to keep him in school (is HE a possibility, though?)

[finefatmama]

I forgot to mention that at the start of reception, most of ds1's play experience is in relating to his nonverbal, autistic older brother and we mentioned that hen he started school. We asked for some cooperation and focus on his social skills. Hi previous nursery worked with him on it as he would only talk to the grown ups in his nursery for most of his time there. At home, he is usually dealing with a biting, head butting brother, physical older brother. We spent quite a few years worrying ds2 and looking for signs of autism. We also requested a SENCO assessment which wasn't done. He didn't like 'playing' much and used to prefer sitting in front of a computer or reading a book or watching tv growing up.

I was hoping that the school would have strategies for coping with a child who needs help with social skills, asks questions and challenges the answers other than scolding him and putting him in time out.

I wouldn't mind if his teacher said to him that infinity was not a number and that there were top heavy fractions. He would sit down and listen. Because she shut him up and dismissed him as though he was wrong, he decided that maybe she didn't know and he would have to show her. He does put up his hand and say 'I don't think thats right...'. We have had a conversation about that.

Re the filing cabinet, it was a group of boys allegedly led by ds2. Dh spoke to him about it. I asked the teacher if he had been made aware that he wasn't allowed in the cabinet and he wasn't. It was usually locked and she just forgot to lock it on that day and went to lunch. He knows better now.

I have asked his babysitters, flute teacher, martial arts teachers, after school and holiday club and their experience of ds2 is nothing like that of the school regarding discipline, following instructions, attitude etc.

We started tutoring after his school started giving us the impression that his skills were superficial and his tutor confirmed they were not.

[YouBrokeMySmoulder]

Ime at a prep, they spend the whole of the nursery/reception classes teaching them to sit on the mat at mat time and other disciplines. Lots of them can read already but what they can't do is follow the rules properly and they will be expected to, even more so than the school he is in now. Going into the classroom, on their own when not allowed would mean you being spoken to after school.

Also they are expected to do a lot of the aftere school activities as they go up through the school and not sport and music outside it iyswim.

I personally think tutoring at reception age and music and sport is very extreme, you are much better off just letting them be. It's clear that he will probably do well academically anyway without it all so why not just let him be 5?

[flexybex]

What kind of flute does a 5 year old play? (Just interested)

It sounds like ds has no free time to learn social skills.

[IslaValargeone]

Crikey, he does an awful lot for a 5 year old.

[nkf]

Any teacher that says she can't stretch a child because she has 30 kids needs further training. But, to be honest, he does sound naughty and counting to 100 is a skill a parrot can learn.So, I wouldn't write off the school yet. I think things could change next year.

[monkey42]

I would look at the bigger picture: he is clearly bright, naturally and possibly enhanced by the extra stuff he does at home. However to function amongst his peers, and in turn in society in general, he needs to learn to behave and fit in, surely? IQ only gets you so far after all. This will apply at both state and private schools - I attended both, my kids are at private, but both types were equally intolerant of failure to mix in and bad behaviour.

If it was me i would be deeply troubled by the behaviour side of things and would probably meet with the teacher and /or head to ask then what they honestly think, is his behaviour secondary to his boredom or an issue in its own right?

From what I have seen private schools also come down like a tonne of bricks on disruptive behaviour, so a private school would only help if they could stretch him more and if the lack of stretching is the issue.

good luck

[YouBrokeMySmoulder]

Although having said all that, I had the same experience as boffinmum in that I waited all of juniors for others to catch up and then got bored with the whole thing. Was that the schools fault for not having extension work, I finished the junior reading scheme in the first term, or my mums fault for teaching me too much before I went? You could read it both ways.

[mrz]

Sorry to ask this OP but is there any possibility your second son has Aspergers - I'm thinking high IQ high maths ability beyond age good reading skills but poor phonics understanding , impulsivity and lack of accepted social norms (you could be describing my son who was a royal PITA for his teachers)

[IslaValargeone]

Why have you focused on the school commenting about his skills being superficial and got him a private tutor, and widening the gap between him and his classmates? Rather than addressing behavioural issues enabling him to enjoy school more.

[learnandsay]

Schools should all be able to cope with bright, well-educated children! If they can't we might as well all pack up right now! For goodness sake!

[YouBrokeMySmoulder]

I was only allowed to start flute in year 3 btw, why did you choose that as a first instrument? Interesting.

[nkf]

Many schools can cope with bright, well educated children. But children who ignore instructions and sneak off to play with equipment are often a challenge.

[learnandsay]

Granted, that's problematical. But I'd be highly suspicious of a teacher who said I can't teach your child because he or she knows a lot! Good Lord!

[Littlemai]

Hello, this thread makes me a little bit sad. I am a massive advocate of play based learning and do feel that the teacher is possibly not explaining (or understanding) why it's important. In my practice one of the great things about learning through play is that is open ended, often child led and therefore able to support and challenge all abilities. The 80% figure is slightly puzzling but it doesn't/or shouldn't mean that the children are left to get on with it for that amount of time. The activities and resources should have been carefully planned through observing the children, some will be child led entirely but a some would also be adult led, and some adult supported. So each child should get very personalised input during these times.
I am sure your child is a very bright little boy, but it is really important that he develops appropriate dispositions and attitudes, if you can't get on with people that will hinder you no matter how clever you are. And unfortunately once he enters yr 1, with less play based opportunities there is less time for these aspects to be supported.
Some of the teachers comments are outrageous and unprofessional but I also agree with other posters that there does seem to have been a breakdown in your relationship with her.
From what you say your child is doing well academically (and he is only really little) you could maybe relax a little on that side and see if you could spend a little while focussing on his social skills? Education is not a race and there is evidence about children who are pushed to achieve do end up with more social difficulties as often their early prowess can plateau, and if a lot of their self worth has been tied up in being the clever one that can be hard. Also we used to talk in teaching about tall wobbly towers, meaning if you stretch a child to much and don't support the breadth of their understanding it can be precarious.
This is a difficult question but does he have friends? And when you see him on play dates etc do you feel he is able to manage these relationships well? Behaving appropriately in situations which are highly structured (such as his martial arts class) can be easier than on freer situations?
I really haven't meant any of this to come across negatively and do absolutely feel that the school needs to work with you more, but I also feel you need to take the pressure of yourself! Your little one is achieving well and is only 5. Forgive me if I read this wrong or have done any kind of "teaching to suck eggs", I think I read your older child has special needs so you probably know everything I have said already.

[ZZZenAgain]

presumably the reason they have a tutor is in response to this kind of comment from the teacher :'no he can't be extended because I have 30 kids to deal with and some don't even know the alphabet which is a priority', 'I know he's bored but I can't give him more work as it HAS to be 80% play for all our children'

so they are giving him the academic learning experience outside of school which the school is not providing for him. It is a bit young to have a paid tutor IMO but on the other hand plenty of parents do this themselves, in essence a lot of parents tutor their dc. The response of the school is not good enough IMO they are not extending him academically nor helping him socially. The teacher (as related here) offers criticism of the dc and his parents and the school has let drop that they have a waiting list and therefore are quite happy it seems if he is withdrawn. I don't find this a good school frankly.

Have you spoken to the head OP?

[BoffinMum]

TBH it would be a rare Reception teacher indeed that had the time, energy or inclination to talk about infinity or the square root of minus two or whatever. This would be the same in almost any school. I think it would make sense to explain what the Reception teacher's role is supposed to be to your DS (i.e. socialisation more than anything else) and set him some targets to do with convergent behaviour. Meanwhile, as I say, try to find him a quirky school for September that will 'get' him, if you can. Are you near any progressive schools, for example?